Internal martial arts: a fiction?

[Scott R. Brown]

If you would be able to do the stuff I was showing you from Sam Tam, then you could compare and talk about it, since you can't do it, you become the student, but you don't want to learn, so what can I say, I can say that you can led a horse to water but you can't make him drink. When you get thirsty then you will start to drink.

You just think the water is a mirage, until you go into the mirage you will never know.

If you are talking about the earlier video, yes i can do it easily.

I mentioned the students unstable stance BTW, NOT a horse stance! You must understand stance stability to understand how to throw someone easily. You must understand it objectively or subjectively, but you must undertsand it.

Every stance has a weakness, it a biomechanical certainty. When you wish to throw someone you must overwhelm their position of strength, their structural stability with greater force, or attack their structural weakness which is the easier thing to do. When you attack a structural weakness, it MAY give the appearance of magical Qi to those who do not understand biomechanics, but it is simple to understand for those who do understand biomechanics!

[YouKnowWho]

If some 20 years old can do that (at 4.57), it's not a big deal at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah27S...eature=related

[YiQuanOne]

So what you are saying is that you are hugging an invisible ball for contemplative reasons, not combat efficacy. That's fine, though I prefer sitting cross-legged on a mat when I meditate, but own up to the fact it isn't going to help you fight!

It does help you, doing the standing will amplify your martial arts.

It is the key to any CMA, but here in the west they don't do it :

1. probably because they don't know it, and if they did, its not what makes them money (I'm going with they don't know it, and don't know they don't know)
2. American's want it all now, hard to sell self cultivation first

No body wants to just stand , they think they are not getting anything. They want to learn moves to show friends, but moves don't work without core, so they force moves (stronger than opponent) or person let's them do move by not resisting.

Most of my students have over 10 years in different MA's, until they realize they are not getting anywhere. Yes they got their Black Belts in this and that, they still hit a wall, no progress, have to force anything to work, unless other person is not resisting or lets them do the move.

Most People want to learn the kicks and all the fancy sets so they look like T.V. kung fu man, the sad part is without the core, those fancy sets don't do anything to build the core which they need to execute those moves with efficient proper force, not by using superior strength and speed.

If you have superior strength and speed, and no core , size becomes the most important factor in external application. If you say you have skill this or that because you learn this move or that move, what happens when opponents learns same move.

[Scott R. Brown]

So you can do standing post to build your core and learn the secrets of standing in one spot for a long period of time, but you don't understand the structural weakness of various stances and how to exploit them?

[YiQuanOne]

If some 20 years old can do that (at 4.57), it's not a big deal at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah27S...eature=related

Just because guys make videos of moves, does not mean they have what it takes to execute them, usually the other guy lets them, most of these are done slow and the other guy is not responding.

I like to watch to see if opponent is trying to counter or following through or resist, most of these they are not.

Unless you can touch the guy, it is hard sometimes to tell if he has the core.
It depends also on what they are doing.

And I would say probably no to a 20 year old having a core.

[YouKnowWho]

The problem is those ZZ guys don't even train stances that can enhance combat skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v89I7rp0ZrI

[Scott R. Brown]

Just because guys make videos of moves, does not mean they have what it takes to execute them, usually the other guy lets them, most of these are done slow and the other guy is not responding.

I like to watch to see if opponent is trying to counter or following through or resist, most of these they are not.

Unless you can touch the guy, it is hard sometimes to tell if he has the core.
It depends also on what they are doing.

And I would say probably no to a 20 year old having a core.

Wait a second, the video you posted is NOT of a guy particpating in the demo, but the one he posted is?

I smell double standard!

[YiQuanOne]

So you can do standing post to build your core and learn the secrets of standing in one spot for a long period of time, but you don't understand the structural weakness of various stances and how to exploit them?

I understand the weakness of stances, from doing application you develop sensitivity.

The standing plus structure is like building a gun. Until you finish your gun you nothing to shoot with, so you can are probably use as a club.

When you finish your gun you still have to learn how to aim it. A lot of people never learn how to aim their gun but have it. (peng jin)

Standing is kind of like getting the parts for gun, structure is like assembling gun, mind is used for aiming and shooting gun.

[YiQuanOne]

Wait a second, the video you posted is NOT of a guy particpating in the demo, but the one he posted is?

I smell double standard!

YouKnowWho put up some video, I don't know where he found it.

I can only vouch for Sam Tam.

[Scott R. Brown]

Then why can you not see the structural instability in the recipient of the vid you posted and see how the feat performed is not that difficult to accomplish because of the structural weakness of the recipient's stance?

[tiaji1983]

In my experience Zhang Zhuan will help you fight just as lifting weights will help you fight, its just a structural power. Just like practicing the shaolin stepping routine, every step develops the legs, only Zhang Zhuan develeops the whole body, helps you notice structural flaws, ie, shoulders lifted, and correct them, helps you relieve natural tension, so not only does it strengthen your body, it helps you heal chronic pains and structural issues you may not be aware of. The beauty of it is, you learn to use the minimal amount of muscle strength so you can stand in one posture for an hour without getting tired. even if you put weights on your arms.

THAT is how it helps you fight. because you learn to naturally use the minimum amount of muscle strength, now if you go a step further and do the Xinyi San Ti Shi or the Yi Quan Hun Yuang Li Stakes, then it seems you build a force for moving in any direction so its equivelant to say in foot ball when you tackle the tackle dummies, but with minimal effort. The only way I can prove it is to ask you to try it.

[SimonM]

Then why can you not see the structural instability in the recipient of the vid you posted and see how the feat performed is not that difficult to accomplish because of the structural weakness of the recipient's stance?

It seems because he is invested in believing Sam Tam has magical powers that come from standing still for long periods of time "developing sensitivity."

I think that if you are really taking so much effort "developing sensitivity" that you forget to practise you have some issues with your initial lack of sensitivity.

Honestly it's not hard to hear what your body is telling you regarding balance and spatial positioning.

Wrestlers do it all the time dynamically.

Gymnasts do it even more dynamically constantly, as do "external" wushu players.

Furthermore all of the above athletes are able to develop "sensitivity" while in motion, practising their art. They don't need to just stand around doing nothing to become sensitive.

I'd accept "it's meditation."

There isn't anything wrong with meditation.

But here's the thing:

I've got vinegar in my kitchen. I've also got single malt whiskey.

My vinegar is very good vinegar, there is nothing wrong with it.
My whiskey is very good whiskey, there is nothing wrong with it.

But if I put whiskey on my french fries it'll taste like crap. Likewise I won't be a happy camper if I drink a tumbler of vinegar on the rocks.

Meditation is not training how to fight.
Training how to fight could, in theory, be a meditative practice, if done correctly but does not need to be a meditative practice to be effective.

Telling people that standing still, meditating, will make them powerful warriors is feeding them a big honking glass of vinegar on the rocks and thus gets on my nerves.

[tiaji1983]

Your right about gymnists and wrestlers. they develop sensitivity through movement. BUT Wrestlers are not very sung. I tried to show a wrestler a version of push hands, and he was way too tense. I dont think if I was playing his sport I could beat him by any means, but in a street fight, yes. He was too tense. Standing Stake is meditation. But its to learn about yourself. Your worst enemy is yourself, if you cannot conquer yourself the enemy will conquer you. Plus it develops the stuff I mentioned in an earlier post. You do not need it to be a good fighter. But just the self discipline alone for standing for one hour is enough to make you great fighter.

[YiQuanOne]

Then why can you not see the structural instability in the recipient of the vid you posted and see how the feat performed is not that difficult to accomplish because of the structural weakness of the recipient's stance?

It does not matter how good reciepents stance is, he will not be able to change fast enough anyway.

Sam is not magical, maybe to you, because you do not know what he is doing.

You guys seem to keep getting off of subject, we are not talking about strength.

[tiaji1983]

YiQuanOne, Scott R Brown is not talking about strength neither. If you push someone towards the weak point in thier body structure they will move, it takes no strength. I have never seen a demo where someone pushed against the strong point in the structure and made them move far that was not fake to my understanding. That I would like to see, and I would like to understand how its done if it is possible, and thats what Scott R Brown is asking you to produce