Using "qi" to break vs. physics (video)

[mooyingmantis]

I always wondered, however, if say you're fighting someone and you get them in your guard, could you just iron palm strike them in the head and crack their skull (coconut break style or whatever)?

Would you compete in a competition in which your opponent was trying to crack your skull? Or where your opponent would purposely break your arm?

MMA has rules and MMA fighters are not trying to kill or permanently injure one another. It is **** sport, not gladiators fighting in an arena.

Even in 70s bare-knuckle fights we respected each other enough not to try and purposely main each other.

Now some are probably going to say, "Oh, so its too deadly for the ring" and do the immature snicker. Yes, there are techniques too deadly for the ring. That is why there are rules. And that is why some states do not allow MMA matches as they currently stand. Watch the number of states that allow MMA matches drop if peeps start getting permanently maimed.

Even with rules, are you aware of these statistics that I posted in another thread a couple of months ago?

Deaths in the Ring

Journal of Combative Sport

From 1890 to 2007 1,335 deaths occurred world-wide in a boxing type format:
14 Toughman style fighters
126 training deaths
293 amateur boxers
923 professional boxers

From 1960 to 2007 there were 421 boxing-related deaths. 80% of the deaths were attributed to head, brain or neck injuries.

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_b_0700.htm

[IronFist]

Would you compete in a competition in which your opponent was trying to crack your skull? Or where your opponent would purposely break your arm?

MMA has rules and MMA fighters are not trying to kill or permanently injure one another. It is **** sport, not gladiators fighting in an arena.

Even in 70s bare-knuckle fights we respected each other enough not to try and purposely main each other.

Now some are probably going to say, "Oh, so its too deadly for the ring" and do the immature snicker. Yes, there are techniques too deadly for the ring. That is why there are rules. And that is why some states do not allow MMA matches as they currently stand. Watch the number of states that allow MMA matches drop if peeps start getting permanently maimed.

Even with rules, are you aware of these statistics that I posted in another thread a couple of months ago?

Deaths in the Ring

Journal of Combative Sport

From 1890 to 2007 1,335 deaths occurred world-wide in a boxing type format:
14 Toughman style fighters
126 training deaths
293 amateur boxers
923 professional boxers

From 1960 to 2007 there were 421 boxing-related deaths. 80% of the deaths were attributed to head, brain or neck injuries.

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_b_0700.htm

No dude I was talking about in a life or death fight.

Many of the iron palm" breaks I've seen involve using a large amount of bodyweight. I wonder if they could do it while laying on their back.

Challenge: IP guys: do a break while laying on your back and not using any body weight (be careful the brick doesn't fall on your head after you break it!)


I suggested this technique because I don't think a grappler would care too much about "a strike that looks like a slap" while he's in your guard. Not to mention, grapplers tend to not care too much about incoming punches from the guy on the bottom because they have no bodyweight behind them.

So it could be entirely unexpected, and if successful, could be an equalizer of sorts for kung fu guys against grapplers, because let's be honest, the grappler is gonna win 99% of the time against a kung fu guy who has a) no experience on the ground and/or b) no experience against a resisting opponent. btw this is fact. It is not up for discussion. Every single one of us who were TMA'ists and then went to a grappling or MMA school got owned in like 30 seconds against a grappler the first time we sparred with one.

[IronFist]

You weren't showing IronFist that this is "Qi breaking" were you? Most of those were just about learning the right technique, which is again, physics. Not that Joe Schmoe could do them...

But I notice something odd with your "bottom brick break":




At the start of this video the two bricks were solid against each other.


Then at 0:17 in the clip when you pushed on (the outside of) them a little you can here a dull "pop" and there came an obvious black space between them. At the bottom of the lower brick, right in the middle there is also a small black spot that appeared.


This small black spot is exactly where the brick cracked when you tapped it.

Whoa, I didn't even notice that before, probably because I watched the vid at like 3am. lol.

Possible explanations:

1) camera artifacts from Youtube's compression method

2) suspicious bottom brick that was flexible or somehow bendy (it did sort of appear to go from a little convex to a little concave when he pressed on them... but this was likely camera artificats)

3) there was a gap between them, and his qi actually went through the top brick, through the space, and into the bottom brick to break it. Short-distance no-touch KO!

But if you'll notice, the black gap didn't appear until after he was pulling his weight off of it, which leads me to believe it was a camera artifact. Watch when his hand is in front of the bricks. There are other black gaps that appear and redraw.


Serious question: why was the bottom brick red rather than concrete color?


Suggestion: next time show each brick independently, show that it is real, then put them on the stand, then break them. I only say this because you pressed on the edges of the bricks and they supported your weight. Nay-sayers will say maybe the middle of the bricks were modified somehow.

Or, set up the bricks and start stacking some weights on them, like weight plates or dumbbells or whatever, to show that they are real.


Not hating, I thought your breaks were good. Just giving some suggestions for next time.

[IronFist]

Ohh, I have a question:

Why are the bricks always supported just on the very edges? That seems unstable. I notice this in every breaking vid I've seen (except for when the brick is on the ground). I'm always worried the bricks are going to fall off and land on the guys toes or something because they're only supported by like 3mm on each side.

Would the break still be just as doable if the supporting stands were a little closer? Or does having them further apart give you more leverage for the break? Now that I think about it, I think it would. Or maybe it gives more room for your hand to follow through after the break (safety)?

I'm not a breaker so I really don't know. I would assume having them entirely on a surface (like Dale's ground break) would be harder. Is this correct?

Opinions?

Here's a pic:

[lkfmdc]

This is a GENERAL post, not directed at anyone in particular, NOT directed at Dale, etc

But generally, breaking things is a show. IF someone with no fighting ability CAN break stuff, then even if people who CAN fight break stuff what does it mean?

Kyokushinkai used to make a big deal about breaking. But (I think it was Bluming?) when it came out how much of those breaks were completely manipulated

[IronFist]

Is this a good break?

3 bricks on the ground, no spacers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndA32...eature=related

[IronFist]

This guy also does granite, too. (but look how far apart the supports are: leverage advantage????)

How strong is granite? I know everyone loves it for their counter tops in their kitchen. Is it hard to break?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAvtO...eature=related

[Dale Dugas]

I used two different colored bricks to show a contrast of the top and bottom brick, as I thought it would be easier to see the bottom brick and what happens.

I cannot do that all the time, and to be honest it happens about 6 times out of every ten breaks.

Not easy to do.

The bricks that are flat on the ground and harder to break and my intention is turned up to 11 when I break them.

I have never tried to break while lying on my back and I have no idea if its possible.

will have to see if it can be done.

[Dale Dugas]

Is this a good break?

3 bricks on the ground, no spacers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndA32...eature=related

I have seen that kind of concrete. It is used in Europe a lot, and its light weight and very easy to break.

the blocks I break are pebble aggregate that are heavy and dense.

Also if you watch there is way too much dust flying when he hits them and that usually hints at baking them or they are extremely dry and crumble to dust easily.

The granite is rather long compared to other bricks which might make it easier for him to break.

He also seems to be wearing some kind of gloves.

I do use a thin towel and sometimes a dish towel to keep my hands from being cut. A towel and gloves are two different things IMO.

[lkfmdc]

Is this a good break?

3 bricks on the ground, no spacers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndA32...eature=related

look at his martial arts "skill"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TacnBn1u-Hc&NR=1

[IronFist]

The Truth Behind Breaking the Bottom Brick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPnD1fl-f-4&NR=1

A guy with no training and no conditioning does it using a hammer. He says it's just physics, no "chi."

Discuss.

[IronFist]

look at his martial arts "skill"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TacnBn1u-Hc&NR=1

I was asking about the break, tho.

breaking != fighting
fighting != breaking

[IronFist]

I have seen that kind of concrete. It is used in Europe a lot, and its light weight and very easy to break.

the blocks I break are pebble aggregate that are heavy and dense.

Also if you watch there is way too much dust flying when he hits them and that usually hints at baking them or they are extremely dry and crumble to dust easily.

The granite is rather long compared to other bricks which might make it easier for him to break.

He also seems to be wearing some kind of gloves.

I do use a thin towel and sometimes a dish towel to keep my hands from being cut. A towel and gloves are two different things IMO.

Ok, yeah I didn't know anything about those bricks.

I have no problem with putting a towel down over the bricks. Better than cutting your hand.

The granite pieces get smaller as the video goes on. I don't know anything about granite, though. I know some materials are super brittle and will break even under their own weight (glass is like this).

[IronFist]

Once again, so people don't misunderstand my point:

I'm not trying to downplay the amount of conditioning needed to break bricks. I haven't done hand conditioning in years and probably cannot do the breaks myself. I don't think you can take an untrained guy and have him breaking bricks in 5 minutes. Conditioning takes time, effort, skill, and dedication; truly the definition of "kung fu."

Now, the kicks that the monks were doing in the first vid to break the concrete bricks, I do think you could teach an untrained guy to do that in 5 minutes. Why?

1) Most people can kick pretty hard without training, especially is they use their heel.

2) Those concrete slabs broke because of how they were set up. It was physics, not qi.

My issue is when people try to pass off parlor tricks as being the result of mystical power. It's quackery, it's BS, and it makes martial arts look bad.

Throwing the needle through the glass? Physics, not qi.

Legit breaking bricks with your hand? Conditioning, not qi.

Cheap breaking bricks with your hand (such as doing it on the edge of a step and lifting it up 1mm before your hand strikes it)? Parlor tricks and conditioning, not qi.

Breaking stuff with your head? Conditioning, not qi.

Breaking the bottom brick? Physics, not qi.

Hanging by your neck in one of those straps? Conditioning, not qi.

404 qi not found.

I've even seen people hit out the bottom of a glass bottle and say it was qi. lol, I've seen drunk frat guys do the same thing. I don't think they were practitioners of qigong.

I saw another thing on TV where they said the one inch punch was because of qi. Nope! Physics, again. You can teach someone to do a one inch punch in 5 minutes. Of course, they will be more successful if they have good hand conditioning, but short power generation is physics, not qi.

If thinking of using qi helps the martial artist focus, that's one thing. If they believe qi manipulation improves their health or whatever, that's fine. But when they're trying to say that the breaks are a result of qi, when in fact they are some combination of conditioning and/or physics, that is BS. The martial arts community should work on distancing itself from these charlatans, not embracing their lies as being legitimate.

[Syn7]

I used two different colored bricks to show a contrast of the top and bottom brick, as I thought it would be easier to see the bottom brick and what happens.

I cannot do that all the time, and to be honest it happens about 6 times out of every ten breaks.

Not easy to do.

The bricks that are flat on the ground and harder to break and my intention is turned up to 11 when I break them.

I have never tried to break while lying on my back and I have no idea if its possible.

will have to see if it can be done.

i would love to see a bottom break with your bricks flat on the ground...


also, if indeed a break was from qi, then it shouldnt matter what position your body is or where the brick lays, doncha think? on the flipside, if its all physics, those factors become very important...

of all the cats who posted their breaks on this forum, i mos def like yours the best... that teetsao cat isnt bad either...

im so tired of watching big dudes smash things and claim special powers and sh1t tho. nice to see you guys do it proper. its so anoying to have somebody talk up their breaks saying its all qi then watch them jump up and slam into the bricks at full tilt... especially when there are spacers, thats the worst...


has anyone here done a "middle" break??? you know what i mean, right? at least three bricks, bottom and top are fine, middle is broken... ofcourse i dont expect some van damm brick to dust bullsh1t. just a simple crack would be impressive enough...

personally, i can break the small red bricks with my palm on a ledge... but i never thought of that as anything special... but i dont see cats break them small ones very often... i wanna see cats do it like in that chinese shaolin doc where the guy goes down the line...


anyone here able to toss a needle very well? ive never actually seen that in person and you can never see it very well on cheap youtube vids... not enough frames per second to really get a good look at the damage on the glass, let alone seeing the needle fly thru at super slow speed...