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Thread: Tru-2-Form Sparring

  1. #1

    "True to form Sparring"

    Just recently heard about this new division at a Texas tournament.

    Guy talked about a scorpion, monkey...mantis....

    They dont care who won or lost just that you you "looked" like your style when you sparred. I am assuming it was light or no contact.....

    The CMA just continues to lose credibility.

    tournaments are a sore spot for me these these days........students come to me and want to pay $100 to compete at a tournament for the "experience".....what? you come to class two times a week and want to compete for the "experience"...you compete to win....and you better train hard everyday for months before the tournament.

    All these different divisions....come on...."now calling the Green uniform with one read shoe, white sash, ear ring in left ear, junior, female, scorpion division". give me a break

    If you get first place in a tournament with three people in the division....that was no great accomlishment....Im sorry.

    I had a student who had to have paid $200 with all of the divisions....got grand champion...and was very proud. Probably competed in five divisions with the biggest having 4 competitors....WOW that was awesome!....NOT.

    Oh yeah.....this particular student couldnt afford the $25 the next month for an extra class I offered.....but wanted to go to a tournament the next month.

  2. #2
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    Dave,
    Tournament prices are way out of hand these days. I remember my students paying about $25 to compete back in the 80s. But "times, they are a changin'"
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  3. #3
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    This sounds like a Shaolin-Do tournament to me.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  4. #4
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    Seems like when someone wants to make a few quick bucks they either hold a ternement or a siminar of some sort. It is absolutely shameful.
    Jackie Lee

  5. #5
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    In defense of those who sponsor tournaments, few barely break even, if they don't lose money. Local tournaments are not the cash cow most peeps imagine them to be.

    Trophies/medals are quite expensive. Renting a hall is also very expensive. Most tournaments that I have judged at also provide lunch of some kind for all the judges, scorekeepers, etc..

    Providing quality instructors for the seminars after the tournaments is also expensive. Some instructors act like divas. They are often unwilling to judge, expect nice accommodations and meals while they are in town and will not attend if members of other families of the same style are in attendance.

    If you think you will get rich sponsoring a tournament, try it and get back with me when you are driving your new Mercedes-Benz. Though I won't hold my breath waiting for you to call.

    Talk to Ginosifu if you really want to know what hosting a tournament is like.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 08-07-2011 at 02:46 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  6. #6
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    Tru-2-Form Sparring

    This discussion began on our Legends of Kung Fu 2011 thread. With this article, it surely needs its own thread as I'm confident it will stimulate a lively discussion.

    True-2-Form Sparring is making history
    Violet Li, Tai Chi Examiner
    August 8, 2011

    Many Tai Chi practitioners are surprised when they see a Push Hands tournament. To them, a Push Hands competition has little resemblance to the art they practice. The same comment can also be heard about an external martial arts sparring. With protective gear and heavy gloves, it is extremely difficult for contestants to apply the sophisticated fine maneuvering techniques like Chin Na. Many of the Push Hands, sparring and San Shou tournaments are about punching, shoving, kicking and dragging the opponent down. Don’t get me wrong, those tournaments have their own merits too, and the U.S. is not the only country having fights like that.

    Since true traditional Chinese Martial Arts (CMA) techniques cannot be fully utilized during these types of tournaments, people wonder about the true usefulness of CMA in terms of real fighting. Is CMA just cool looking in demonstrations and movies while possess little application? The internal martial arts, especially Tai Chi, suffer tremendously from this type of misperception.

    History has been forgotten; actually CMA was designed to build empires, to protect villages, and to defend oneself. After centuries of re-invention and improvements, CMA has become extremely profound and complicated. It is not easy to learn; nevertheless, they can be powerful and deadly once a practitioner acquires the skills. But to adapt to the tournament rules, martial art schools across the nation change how martial arts are taught. Fighters are trained with a modified curriculum. With this, martial art connoisseurs have a genuine concern that the arts have been watered down and gradually their principles and techniques will be lost.

    Master Christophe Clarke has studied the internal arts from world-renowned masters in China, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and the U.S. He was a champion in many international competitions. He worked as a consultant for the Sports Ministry in the former USSR. He worked for Dan Reeves with the Denver Broncos on coordination and visualization techniques. He also worked with the FBI to teach their SWAT team high-level martial arts techniques. He has established himself as a world respected teacher. He also starred in five martial arts action films.

    His passion for CMA runs deep. This year, with his leadership and volunteering effort from many others, Legends of Kung Fu & Taiji Legacy World Martial Arts Championship agreed to host a True-2-Form (or True-to-form) Sparring division. 19 people participated in the event. A competitor is judged not only by his strikes against the opponent but also by how true he is to his form. Master Clarke explains that this format is to explore the ability to use and apply one’s own martial art system in a light, continuous sparring match. The reasoning is that Taekwondo and Judo practitioners all fight with their own skills and CMA should be no different.

    Each True-2-Form Sparring match requires each contestant to do a short demo of her style before sparring. Safety gear is optional. Rules of Engagement are:

    A competitor must be able to deliver his techniques with speed, timing and placement, executing them with control and accuracy. Force is not the key to success.
    The referee has total control over the match, directing the pace and assuring safety, while allowing the 3-minute freestyle match to take place. 4 experienced corner judges, look at the competitors every move, taking mental and written notes, and making a decision on the winner.
    Safety is the key. If a competitor shows overly aggressive behavior or poor sportsmanship, he will be cautioned once. A second time will result in disqualification.
    Beginning and Intermediate divisions have some restrictions with little to no head contact, sweeps (iron broom), ortakedowns.
    Advanced division allows light contact to the head, excessive contact and poor sportsmanship will not be tolerated. Competitors must fight with integrity.

    Choy Lay Fut Grandmaster Fred Spencer of California was the head judge, Side judges were Master Al-Waalee Muhammed of Texas of Bagua and Hsing I, Master Stan Johnson of Texas of Bagua, Master Raymond Fogg of Texas of Wah Lum Preying Mantis, Master George Giatrakis of Texas of Choy Lee Fut, and Master Steve Christopherson of Texas of Scorpion Kung Fu. Master Clarke was the referee.

    It was quite interesting to watch the matches of Scorpion versus Monkey, Five Animal versus Bagua, etc. Spectators cheered constantly during the matches. Most of the contestants had never participated in sparring competition before; they felt that True-2-Form Sparring as much more meaningful. Some senior instructors like David Vidato of Oklahoma, joined the matches. Simon Vixathep of Baton Rouge, LA practioner of martial arts for 21 years, won an advanced division title with his Monkey techniques. Camdida Aguilar of Carrollton, TX, is a 23-year-old lady who has studied Choy Lay Fut for almost four years to lose weight. She was the only female adult fighter. She was not afraid to be hit by bigger and taller men. She fought like a champion and won the second place in the advanced Lightweight Division. Of course, this probably would not happen in other types of Sparring. In True-2-Form, all male competitors were very conscientious. Master Clarke contributed this to their training in CMA, which they learn how to respect women and they will not take advantage of their size nor physical strength to knock out any female competitor. Candida actually won with her technical skills and not by her physical brute force. You can see a fight between a Monkey and Five Animals on the left-hand-side video. For more of the exciting sparrings, you can visit Master Gohring's website www.youtube.com/mastergohring .

    The winners of this first True-2-Form competition are:

    Kids 7 & under: Jaidynne Young (1st)
    Kids 8 -11: Kimberly Birge (1st) and Ty Roberts (2nd)
    Advanced Lightweight: Simon Vixathep (1st), Camdida Aguilar (2nd), John Piper (3rd), David Vidato (3rd), and Brenden Connor (3rd)
    Advance Heavyweight: Dallas Horgeshimer (1st), Kevin Chin (2nd) and Joshua Masseo (3rd)

    Since the Dallas event, there have been vivid discussions within the martial arts community. A few have some reservations toward it. Master Clarke acknowledges that this new format is a work-in-progress. As more tournaments are held, rules will be adjusted. Practitioners will receive proper training and be more effectively applying their skills in fighting. With the success of the Dallas tournament, the True-2-Form Sparring has proven itself to be a viable format. As Judge Steve Christopherson commented, this was the best thing that ever happened in CMA. We are excited to see history in the making.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  7. #7
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    So instead of people really fighting, they pretend to fight like they are in movie.

    Yay for Kung Fu!
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    So instead of people really fighting, they pretend to fight like they are in movie.

    Yay for Kung Fu!
    I swear I didn't pay him to say that
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #9
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    Honorary African American
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  10. #10
    students are really innocents, and we shouldn't make fun of them, but that was horrible

    and did the announcer really say "this is the highest level of kung fu"
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  11. #11
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    Even in pretend sparring, Mantis reigns supreme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOO5v...feature=relmfu
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  12. #12
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    Kung Fu is good for you.

  13. #13
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I agree with Jamieson, truly a bad sign
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  15. #15
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    waitagoddamnminute

    wasn't this the step guy?

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