Lycanthropy and the Martial Arts

[GeneChing]

That was one obscure reference and I'm embarrassed I understood it. Anyway, see where it got Mr. Fox in the end...

[brucelee2]

This reminds me of something I read about Willem De Thouar's Kuntao Silat. There's a story that when William or his teacher was starting out his sifu required him to fight one of these little monkeys that were all over the place. He was very confident that he would kick the monkey's as$ but then the monkey went nuts/savage and was very difficult to defeat. So, part of this Kun tao silat training is to cultivate or contact, in my understanding, that innate savagery within all of us.

[phantom]

Okay guys, I find this both interesting and a bit scary. Is it possible for this inner aggression to to get out of control when you do not want it to? If so, then is there any way to always keep it under control?

[Paul]

The methods and training in Chi Dao Ch'uan was very focused on not just moving like an animal but the spirit aspect was stress highly by full contact bare knuckle blood matches and specifc mediations

that's pretty much how I remember it. I studied with the GDS for a year or so. Chi Tao Chuan is pretty cool. If nothing else I got over being afraid to get hit while I was studying there.

Is it possible for this inner aggression to to get out of control when you do not want it to?

I have kind of wondered about that myself in the past. After I left the GDS I got into 2 fights a couple of weeks apart. I could have avoided both of them and I was the first person to start swinging both times.

[Sam Wiley]

One of the most important things we learn in the martial arts is Timing. On a physical level, we learn the right moment to act or react with our defense. If we are too soon, we will be defeated, and if we are too late, we already are defeated. We learn through our experiences along the road to mastery when and why to do things. This reptilian part of our conciousness only surfaces when we are sufficiently threatened. If you get into an argument with someone who is across the room from you, and both your tempers flare, you are not in immediate or life-threatening danger, and you are not going to enter this state of mind. If you are closer to the person, and the same situation ensues, you might, but it is because you now perceive the other person to be a threat to you. Still, you are unlikely to use physical force unless something about the other person says it is necessary. For many people, it actually takes a physical attack upon them before they can recognize that they are in danger. For some reason, they just do not recognize that they are in danger, perhaps because they have not trained as realistically and violently as they need to and so they perceive everything to be a game.

As an example, I sometimes get hit in the face in push hands, or poked in the eye. And this is a training method most people think of as a peaceful sensitivity exercise. While it is a sensitivity exercise, it is not necessarily a peaceful or soft exercise. It can be done violently, and some of my favorite types of push hands are done with fa-jing, explosively and violently. Maybe other people should expand their repetoire of push hands to include more violent types, so that they have a balance of violent and not violent in their training. From what I understand, people with healthy sparring regimens do not have this kind of problem. They are exposed to enough violence that they can differentiate between when they need to be violent and when they don't.

In any case, there are some people out there who I believe should refrain from training in entering this state of mind. The thing is, that these people are constantly living on the brink of this state all the time, and do not need it. They simply haven't evolved that far past it to have to train in accessing it, I guess; it just comes too naturally to them.

[PhoenixPangaryk]

[i]Is it possible for this inner aggression to to get out of control when you do not want it to? If so, then is there any way to always keep it under control? [/B]

Interesting thread. Based on my experience, Sam may disagree, it can easily get out of control. Back in the mid 1980's I was deeply involved with the type of methods Sam is discussing, although I did not understand so much about what I was doing. Later in life you read books, do research and BINGO the lights go off and you gain a credible understanding of the events that took place. Because I lived on the streets for a few years I had the unfortunate opportunity to get involved and witness severe examples of the 'beast' unleashed in raw rage in the form of fighting. I have observed extreme brutality in the form of people actually attempting to kill one another - for real - and not really thinking about death as the result of their actions; but to the observer who is feeling and seeing what was happening - death surrounded and encapsulated the individuals and on one occasion a man died of his injuries. Others were sent to the hospital and in the extreme cases - they were in coma states for several weeks until they came back.

None of these individuals were trained in martial arts. Since those mid 80's, I have attempted to learn about this dark beast; this connection to raw man that some when they hit the 'fight' switch tap into. I myself am 'victim' to the raw, animal, reptilian connection when fear or rage sets me off. Others 'flight' under severe stress - I go nuts and people get hurt. This 'going nuts' mind you is very controlled in its moment and very calculating for me. Time stands still and I enter a tunnel where all existence ceases until the threat is banished, by whatever means necessary. Once the threat diminishes I return back 'out of the tunnel'. This tunnel I enter into has only happened when fear and rage have provolked me to act against an intruder. This level of connection is rare and I do not get to that level in normal ritual, healing, animal workings. I do establish a connection but it is never as deep as it was in the 80's. That would require a second source of provocation that I do not bother delving into any longer. I know it is there.

That was years ago.

MA training has allowed me to harness this, but it is only after recognizing that these aspects of me did not make me evil - they made me whole. I was out of balance but I came to study and research why I was this way under severe stress and it was simply a primitive survival instinct for me. No thought attachments to the destruction these forces cause - they just are. It is through the acceptance and awareness of such personal connections that you can better understand why and where it comes from. Not by having a shrink say your nuts - some are, but most are not. I was not insane - but the things I did and the way I reacted could be viewed as such if you did not understand the human condition. There is no patterns or structures in this realm - it is a collage of unadulterated energy that is very raw and very pure. Not to be judged, it just is. Now, we all understand about good Vs evil - this is not good Vs evil. This is about energy in a raw sense of the definition.

Anyway, in a nutshell, yes it can be harnessed, but it is very difficult to harness it if you do not know it by experiencing it and feeling its power flow through you. It takes immense pressure and commitment to establish this connection and unfortunately, it is difficult to establish in its purity. It can be done. Once you feel it, you come to believe, then you come to understand and it is not easily spoken in words. Of most importance here is that you understand this raw connection is not only dark energy. It can be used for very productive healing, ritual aspects. Sam can perhaps elaborate more on this.

Phoenix

[Stacey]

best post ever on KFO. Congrats.

Wow, where to start. Taoism is basically the continuation of shamanic beleifs. They are latent within the practices, but not the religion of our chinese martial arts.

This got me interested. Through psycology we can visualize winning. Through shamanic trance, we can become animals. What about the power of myth. The Baba Yaga, Kali/Shiva evergies that are related to but inherently different than the animal nature.

In order to find balance in my own life I have been reading a lot of Marrion Woodman who does a lot with Robert Bly. Anyways, they talk about unifying the masculine and femenine energies within the shadow for greater clarity and reality in life. Seems to make sense, very daoist stuff in that.

I'm wondering how such mythical/dream work that works direcly with your body can provide another link to the physical. I'm getting vague here, but bear with me. You wake up from a dream with strong archetypes feeling, good, poised, balanced. When you don't have these dreams, your daily life becomes the dream your subcontious wishes to express. By cleaning out the garbage, or diving into the dark pool, can we get Finn's golden salmon of wisdom to empower us as martial artists and as people?

[Sam Wiley]

Phoenix,
It sounds like you have experienced what I call "internal thought," pure and focused, and formless, and ruthless, and totally dominating.

Qi is kind of like water, conforming to whatever vessel (intent) it is poured into. Without getting into qi vs. jing here...your qi is harmful if your intent is to harm, and it is beneficial if your intent is to heal. It just depends on what you want to do with it. As has been stated before, it is easy to harm people. It does not require that much effort to learn how to harm someone. You don't even really need martial arts to do that. It is, however, much harder to learn to heal people. The reason is that healing requires genuine compassion. It is easy, on the one hand to generate destructive emotions about people you know, and it is just as easy to generate destructive emotions about people you do not know. While it is fairly easy to feel genuine compassion for someone you know, many find it difficult to feel genuine compassion for people they don't know. I could write all night on this subject and only scratch the surface, so I'm just going to recommend a book by His Holiness the Dalai Lama called, The Four Noble Truths , which goes into insightful detail about this subject and more.

Anyway, one of the best medicines is simply touch. We all have an innate ability to heal with our presence, with our hands, with a kiss, etc. One of the things we learn to do while learning to access this primitive brain, is to transfer energy. Energy is best transferred when there is no concious thought, and the process is all-natural. Visualization is there in the beginning of our training to get the motor started. But it should progress to a more natural state, something that happens automatically. You exchange love between yourself and your spouse without a word or a thought, same with a dog or a cat; it's just a natural energetic exchange. When a loved one is sick or down, for some reason, you reach out and touch them. When your dog is sick, you pet him. You don't think to yourself that if you touch them here or there, you can rebalance the energy or pacify a liver condition or whatever. You just reach out and touch them. These things are done by the reptile brain. Remember when I said it was concerned with survival? That doesn't just apply to your survival, but to your loved ones' survival. I prefer to think that the reptile brain is there to preserve a balance in the universe period. It can heal to maintain a balance or insure survival, and on the other hand it can kill to maintain balance or insure survival. A hammer can be used to drive nails, or it can be used to drive someone's skull in. It's a tool. And the reptile brain, though I often speak of it in terms of self-defense, is also a tool. And a tool can be neither good nor bad, just like qi can be neither good nor bad. It's pure and neutral.

I think that made sense, anyway.

[David Jamieson]

Sam, have you ever heard of mi-de-wawin?

peace

[Sam Wiley]

Guohuen,
Good point. I think the wisdom mind's control over it comes naturally with the training. While in the beginning it may seem a little difficult to come back out of it, eventually, it becomes easier. I think the continuing threat factor has a lot to do with it, though. If the person is still a threat, still trying to attack, you will not just slip out of it. But if you have him locked up or put down or he runs or whatever, you will naturally slack off. You might maintain dominance, but you are not going to keep trying to maim or cripple him. Conciously, I might still want to, but of course, my concious mind is not in control then. While I have had times when I did not simply slip into the reptile brain, it took taking a punch to make me change states, there was only one time when I did not come out of it easily. The difference was that in that case, the guy I was fighting, who had moved out of range, was simply waiting for an opportunity, and when he took it I was still in the reptilian state. Every other time, when the opponent backed off, I came out of it. But even in that one instance, once he put his hands down and said he didn't want to fight any more, I came back.

Kung Lek,
I don't believe I'm familiar with the term. What is it in English?

[David Jamieson]

It's an Anishinabe (Ojibbwa) word meaning "mystical doings".

Very interesting in context to martial arts. I've been involved with it since about 90.

Two really great teachers who pop in and out of my life at times when their teaching is needed.

One esoteric thing in my life that still keeps me quite curious.

peace

[Sam Wiley]

Do you mean physical or "dream" teachers? I've had both.

[guohuen]

Good thread Sam. I have the same experience with going "In and out". Perhaps it's because we train with a "sense of enemy". I also think your wisdom mind has been tested under extreme duress as you seem to be able to trust it.
Toney

[David Jamieson]

Not dream teachers, they are bonafide in the flesh folks.

I know what you mean though. I was just curious if you had ever heard of or had any dealings with the Shamans and elder teachers of the americas in your journeys.

peace

[Stacey]

I have a dream herbal teacher. She teaches me about herbs while I sleep. At first I got sick and started bleeding from the mouth, but thats because my chinese wasn't very good and I misunderstood her. She said it was ok because my evil former self was making way for my original nature.