Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff

[rett]

If someone views you as perfect, you probably aren't!

I know! It's so annoying when that happens.

[Scott R. Brown]

What bugs me about all the highly hagiographic elements of sutras and so on is just that they totally miss the point. To the best of my knowledge, highly accomplished Buddhist teachers seem very normal and down-to-earth. They don't float around, glow, display miracles like emitting water and fire at the same time, floating above the ground so as not to risk squishing an ant, and so on. That's comic book stuff added to the story later. Maybe it can be done, but it's not important. In the prsence of a real teacher you're impressed by their presence, by their calm, dignified, peaceful bearing, and unruffled nature. They don't need all the extra stuff. But a few generations after they pass the followers tack on all that formulaic stuff.

Even if you view a teacher as having a calm and peaceful bearing, etc. it is still a manifestation of your expectation, a contrivance of your mind, and not who they are!

[rett]

Even if you view a teacher as having a calm and peaceful bearing, etc. it is still a manifestation of your expectation, a contrivance of your mind, and not who they are!

Maybe, maybe not. I mean, you can say that about anything... it's too simple of a pat saying, cheap zen, to really say anything Scott.

[Scott R. Brown]

If someone views you as perfect, you probably aren't!

I know! It's so annoying when that happens.

On the other hand, if you do not start from a false/contrived view of what is perfect or not, you see that everything is already perfect (as it should be) from the start!

[rett]

On the other hand, if you do not start from a false/contrived view of what is perfect or not, you see that everything is already perfect (as it should be) from the start!

Not to get all superderior on you, but that's a common shallow insight. Children often get hit and awed by that one. (not to say children are shallow)

[Scott R. Brown]

Maybe, maybe not. I mean, you can say that about anything... it's too simple of a pat saying, cheap zen, to really say anything Scott.

It can be viewed that way from a narrow perspective, however when one starts with a contrived idea of how they THINK it is supposed to be, they are chasing an illusory perfection, attitude, behavior, etc. Standards bind us to a false goal!

I know, I know....there must be some standard of behavior/ethical conduct!

This cannot be denied, the mistake is to confuse the behavior/conduct with realization. The two are not necessarily connected.

There are numerous anecdotal stories of Ch'an Masters disrupting dinners and displaying outrageous behavior, but the behavior is excused because they are "MASTERS".

Yet that does not make the behavior socially appropriate.

Addendum: There are also many anecdotal stories of people "appearing" holy who are later found to be hucksters!

[Scott R. Brown]

Not to get all superderior on you, but that's a common shallow insight. Children often get hit and awed by that one. (not to say children are shallow)

Please explain how it is shallow, and how it being shallow makes it false!

[rett]

Please explain how it is shallow, and how it being shallow makes it false!

I don't think it's false. In fact I believe it's true.

It's shallow because I'm still an as$hole, even after having grokked that.

[Scott R. Brown]

I don't think it's false. In fact I believe it's true.

It's shallow because I'm still an as$hole, even after having grokked that.

What is wrong with being an a$$hole?

The world requires a$$holes! If there were not people to unravel our quaint little ideas of ourselves and the world, how would be test our realization?

[rett]

I guess I just believe in going back to working on foundations. Keep practising basics, whatever happens.

[Scott R. Brown]

I guess I just believe in going back to working on foundations. Keep practising basics, whatever happens.

That is fine too. And there is nothing wrong with having an idea of perfect behavior to work towards, it is just important to remember that behavior does not equal realization by necessity. That is, behavior MAY be an outward example of internal understanding, but it just as easily might not!

[Hendrik]

Sure. But a monk who constantly displayed siddhis to laypeople, such as by always floating above the surface of the ground, would attract the wrong kind of attention and be in violation of the vinaya. Seriously, it's better to unintentionally squish a few worms than to go around showing off siddhis. Not that this is a dilemma you or I will ever have to face.

if they are Arhat, they are natural both the levitation and the vinaya is a natural part.


I have known an incident in california of a Buddhist monk decade ago.


Something like this,

What happen is the temple is under construction. Some how the old monk walks up stair to the third flour to inspect the repair.

and while the old monk is in the third floor, the office needs the old monk. so a nun went standing in the first floor's stair way asking the old monk to come to the office.

So, the old monk comes down to the office.

and a few minute later, the nun needs to go to the second floor to take some belonging. While she walks up the first floor stair, she notice all the floor are cover with thick dust from the building work. but there is no foot print of the old monk at all but dust evenly cover the floor from the first level stair way to the second floor , but the old monk just walk up to the third floor and walk down to the first floor.


most will not notice what the nun notice.

[rett]

most will not notice what the nun notice.

That's how temple gossip gets started. Way for people to start hinting that their Monk is an arhat. Maybe get better donations.

IMO it's not proper for any monks or nuns to spread stories like that among their followers.

[Scott R. Brown]

When I was age 9 I was running across a busy 4 lane City street. I was crossing legally with the light, but some guy was not paying attention and decided to turn right just as I was approaching the curb. All I heard was the horn, then found myself standing on the curb. The car was right where I had been a milli-second before and should have hit me!

I was NOT a Buddhist monk at a California Temple at the time!

[Scott R. Brown]

That's how temple gossip gets started. Way for people to start hinting that their Monk is an arhat. Maybe get better donations.

It's not proper for any monks or nuns to spread stories like that among their followers.

Well said!