Choy Lee Fut VS Pak Mei

[Iron_Eagle_76]

And some of you ass***holes wonder why we never get new members posting on this forum??

[Ray Pina]

Ray, you do make some valid points. But I don't see anywhere in my post where I attacked you personally.

Sorry of my post came off as accusing you of such. That was not intended. And I admit, I took it too far with the San Shou.

Much respect for San Da, etc.

[Ray Pina]

And Choy Lee Fut will never STOP doing forms either. get over it.

I'm happy for you and Choy Lee Fut... apparently a match made in heaven.

[maxattck]

So they want to do forms, I have to ask ray, why do you care.

[hskwarrior]

I'm happy for you and Choy Lee Fut... apparently a match made in heaven.

Yup, Haterism runs through your veins. LOL...

[Frost]

Umm did I miss the posts where everyone said look at that form its really lovely so that must mean CLF is one of the best TCMA styles ……………I thought most people were looking at the video and saying nice set, oh and CLF is one of the better TCMA styles (before Ray went off on one), and basing this on the fact that CLF is one of those rare arts that actually competes full contact regularly across all its families and in several different countries, I know that’s what I’m basing it on. Most of the so called internal TCMA Ray likes so much (in the west at least) don’t regularly fight in Sanda or san shou, I thought Ray would have been applauding CLF for carrying the fighting banner. (note before arguments start I know a few lineages of tai chi compete in san shou, and some hsingi schools but the vast majority of schools and students in the west don’t compete using these systems). In fact CLF, whilst being one of the smaller TCMA styles (in terms of numbers of students) seems to dominate most of the full contact clips you can find from TCMA on the net, and they seem to also appear much more in proper international events and not just local interclub sparring.

[Ray Pina]

I am wrong. You all are right.

THOSE CLF practitioners in THOSE fighting videos looked competent.

[Ray Pina]

Yup, Haterism runs through your veins. LOL...

I just noticed your videos in your sig Sifu Frank: http://www.youtube.com/user/sifufrank?feature=mhee

Very impressive martial arts. If anyone should be upset it's you. Your dominance of cooperating students in slow motion is as good or better than any I've seen.

I'm reformed. I mean it. You will now see a completely different persona from me on this message board. Very cooperative. I didn't realize the level of skill I was dealing with.

My bad. Many apologies.

Keep me informed. I am full of love and anticipation to see any of your students next fights.

[Frost]

So what’s the problem? those are not the only clips, you can find lots on the net from the 70’s, 80’s 90’s and today from all over the place (austraila, Poland the US the UK etc) that’s the point its not just one club out there competing a lot of the CLF guys do, and do it effectively

Those CLF guys train the same as most CLF guys from what I can gather: forms, pad work, applications and sparring (I grant that the fighting orientated clubs do less forms and more person to person work, at least from what I have seen, but they still do forms)

[Ray Pina]

So what’s the problem? those are not the only clips, you can find lots on the net from the 70’s, 80’s 90’s and today from all over the place (austraila, Poland the US the UK etc) that’s the point its not just one club out there competing a lot of the CLF guys do, and do it effectively

Those CLF guys train the same as most CLF guys from what I can gather: forms, pad work, applications and sparring (I grant that the fighting orientated clubs do less forms and more person to person work, at least from what I have seen, but they still do forms)

No problem.

I'm thinking of taking up CLF myself now. I'm kind of digging the big, sweeping, wax on wax off like element strikes.... they don't really leave one too open for too long. Shame no one has really crossed over successfully to MMA with that. Maybe time. Give Sifu Fank's guys a couple more years.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It seems to me that the trend on this forum anymore is to bash CMA at all expense regardless of what it is and what proof exists that it is used as a combat art. To me this seems pointless but it is what it is.

I really don't understand why it is Kung Fu or even San Shou is looked down upon and not given dues even when proven that these fighters are fighting not only other Kung Fu practioners but other styles as well. I don't ever see people bashing Muay Thai for only fighting Muay Thai in competitions??

The thing is, while MMA is a popular sport and a very good testing indicator of a person's skill level, not everyone is interested in MMA. Some people fit the criteria of San Shou more because the skill focus is much more on striking and wrestling as opposed to groundwork and submissions.

The point is, if we as TCMA practioners do not give credit to the styles that fight and compete with their art, why should anyone else.

[Ray Pina]

The point is, if we as TCMA practioners do not give credit to the styles that fight and compete with their art, why should anyone else.

You are right about this! Those men should get credit!

On the other hand, I bet my views on training are similar to those men fighting in the ring. Just by the nature of what they're putting themselves into.

It's not right for every CLF person here to claim the same and ride that bandwagon. Two people can study math... one can become a bum, the other a billionaire. It's how you apply it.

A teacher of a combat art shouldn't have to scurry Youtube for footage. He should have fight footage of his own students. One doesn't submit someone else's work for their own portfolio.

I don't have the opportunity to discuss training with those men in the ring. I'm discussing it with men here, who profess form but have no fighters.

[hskwarrior]

I'm thinking of taking up CLF myself now. I'm kind of digging the big, sweeping, wax on wax off like element strikes.... they don't really leave one too open for too long. Shame no one has really crossed over successfully to MMA with that. Maybe time. Give Sifu Fank's guys a couple more years.

My guys aren't interested in SPORTS MODEL martial arts. they are perfectly happy knowing they can defend themselves in a street confrontation.

Yet, the beauty of it is, all YOU see are big moves and naturally think we are so very wide open and having no tighter more compact moves. You probably thinking "they don't know how to close those doors" and thats what we want too believe.

[Frost]

So first it was because they weren’t fighting and just did forms, when this was proved to be wrong you switched and argued because the format they were fighting in (Sanda) was so restrictive and silly it was like TKD fighting and didn’t count, when you were called on this you again switched tactic and now argue its not MMA so it doesn’t count?

seriously come on Ray you bash TCMA and talk about how great MMA is and boxing , then suddenly say how you much prefer the internal methods for stand up than boxing…..you talk about how great the internal structures you train are for stand up (yet no one is using them in MMA or Sanda and the only person who tried is you…look how that turned out) yet dismiss a style that constantly competes and wins more than its share in Sanda….cant you see the double standards you are using

You dismiss all the talk about deadly street fights coming from the CLF crowd but still go on and on about the master taking on all challengers…again can we say double standards?

[hskwarrior]

So first it was because they weren’t fighting and just did forms, when this was proved to be wrong you switched and argued because the format they were fighting in (Sanda) was so restrictive and silly it was like TKD fighting and didn’t count, when you were called on this you again switched tactic and now argue its not MMA so it doesn’t count?

Nothing will change his mind. I'm not going to worry about what one man has to say. no matter what you present him with, it will never be good enough because he isn't the one being watched. LOL.

(yet no one is using them in MMA or Sanda and the only person who tried is you…look how that turned out) yet dismiss a style that constantly competes and wins more than its share in Sanda….cant you see the double standards you are using

All he can see is his reflection in the mirror. LMAO and that's all he cares about. LOL.

For the record.....CLF doesn't claim to be deadly. Not in my lineage. Some of the fights our elders have had in the past may have ended in death somtimes, but we've always claimed to be a practical style with practical techniques for practical situations. No other claims.