Wing Chun Fighting - No Bridge No sensitivity!

[trubblman]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

But let me asked you do you Practice Yong Chun?


Do you use Tan, Bong, Bil and Pak when you spar?

I have been practicing VT for almost 6 years but I have just started to spar. I also practice filipino martial arts. I have plenty chances to spar with other artists who
are also practicing FMA, for many people who come to FMA have backgrounds in other arts. We have one current amateur MMA fighter and a few guys who wrestled in high school.

I do use Tan Bong Bil Pak Fook Huen when I spar.

[Yoshiyahu]

@ EternalSpring Thank You for your reply...When i say sparring i mean put on some gloves, mouth guard and cup and go at it. But the key is no matter what the other person is doing you stick to WC principles and techniques and attempt to use all that you know pretaining any given situtation. The More you spar with a resistaning opponent the better you get. The more you use The WC techniques and principles in sparring the more you understand them from experience and experimentation.

Chi Sau is not sparring. Not even close. Sparring or fights for that matter don't start with two people connected to opposite hands. No one fights like that. For one Chi Sau is open. Your doors are open the entire time. Its easier to hit someone doing chi sau when your not than it is to hit someone sparring. No one starts off fighting in YGKYM either. Chi Sau is a drill that gives you a ging/jing to utilize when you do spar. After doing chi sau for awhile you will be able to adapt it to fighting...


Sanda or Sparring is when two people stand out of kicking and punching range. An when they begin they bridge the gap to strike or kick one another!

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by trubblman

I have been practicing VT for almost 6 years but I have just started to spar. I also practice filipino martial arts. I have plenty chances to spar with other artists who
are also practicing FMA, for many people who come to FMA have backgrounds in other arts. We have one current amateur MMA fighter and a few guys who wrestled in high school.

I do use Tan Bong Bil Pak Fook Huen when I spar.

Excellent what style of FMA do you study?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Originally Posted by Graham H

Ok, its good that you have that kind of experience. In my experience the biggest hurdle is not the exchange of blows but the fear and adrenaline rush that can sometimes make you feel very weak and not want to continue. Most street fights occur due the presence of drugs, in particualrly alchohol. Unless you are a little crazy in the head most people don't fight outside of competition just for the fun of it.

If Chi Sau is trained and understood correctly it shouldn't be a hinderance. It is a learning tool not a fighting tool although the skills that are improved in chi sau must cross over into sparring/fighting. The idea of chi sau is to remain free form contact and use the most simple punching route. It also teaches us that if our punch is blocked or deflected then we can find a new punching route in an instant. This allows one to mainting a constant attack (not chain punching) in which case your oppoents abilty to attack you back is restricted. My opinion is that chi sau can be an over indulgence and can actually detract from gaining any real fighting skills. Just look at that clip of the man and woman posted on another thread. They are sexy dancing with each other not fighting! The problem is that I bet that to them and their training partners/peers they think they are actually learning to fight.



GH

It appears then that we are in total aggreance, only using different words to say so.
I have never actually enjoyed fighting. I don't think I have ever had a fight that I was not at least scared. Or at least fearful of being beaten or hurt. This is what fighting is about.
I worked in a night club in Grand Prairie, Texas once that was probably the worst job I have ever taken. We had 30 bouncers and could not keep the peace. I think that most of the patrons actually came there to fight. They would train and work out hard all week and come friday and saturday night they would come to fight. The other half came to watch. It started at the front door no sooner than it opened and it was a running fist fight until we closed. We had a metal detector at the door and tried to keep guns and knives out, but they still got in. I lasted about a month, but had to quite because I stayed so sore and bruised it took me hours to get up and moving every morning. I have had a lot of jobs like that, and a few that were not exactly the same, but almost as bad.

[trubblman]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

Excellent what style of FMA do you study?

Decuerdas Eskrima of Liborio "Ti Boring" Heyrosa as taught by Wesley and Walter Crisostomo

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by trubblman

Decuerdas Eskrima of Liborio "Ti Boring" Heyrosa as taught by Wesley and Walter Crisostomo

Thats great i train with a guy who does Balintawak...have you heard of it...its FMA too!

[trubblman]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

Thats great i train with a guy who does Balintawak...have you heard of it...its FMA too!

Yes they say that De Cuerdas Eskrima was developed by( the late ) Liborio "Tiboring" Heyrosa, He was a student of Venacio "Anciong" Bacon and Nene "Ingko Nene" Rosales of the Balintawak system.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by trubblman

Yes they say that De Cuerdas Eskrima was developed by( the late ) Liborio "Tiboring" Heyrosa, He was a student of Venacio "Anciong" Bacon and Nene "Ingko Nene" Rosales of the Balintawak system.

Cool beans...So how does your Stick fighting tie in to your WC?

[trubblman]

Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu

Cool beans...So how does your Stick fighting tie in to your WC?

I am not sure it ties directly into but it certainly helps with hand sensitivity, wrist flexibility and being used to fight close range, for we spar at close range without padding. In addition, you get the benefit of training with weapons early on without having to go through the mystical nonsense as some martial arts systems.

[GLW]

Lee Chiang Po : "I worked in a night club in Grand Prairie, Texas"

That is where knowing the history of Grand Prairie would have helped - a lot.

Grand Prairie was traditionally DRY - no beer, no wine, no alcohol or any sort.

The county line was where you could get beer. That explains all of the small stop and robs that sell beer along roads like 19th, Great Southwest Parkway, and so on.

The places along the area with the county line have ALWAYS been rough and tumble. The city government sort of decided to keep it that way back in the early 1960's. They wanted to keep the trouble folks in one area where the rougher cops could patrol. It only started loosening up a bit in the last 10 or 15 years.

I know when I go up there, I am still amazed that there are now places I can order a glass of wine with dinner without going to Arlington... (What we would have given for that back in high school)

But, that rough and tumble seediness that was always the nature of the clubs in Grand Prairie has not changed. Anyone taking a job in any "club" in Grand Prairie needs to be totally prepared for the worst environment - and then if it isn't, you can be pleasantly surprised.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by trubblman

I am not sure it ties directly into but it certainly helps with hand sensitivity, wrist flexibility and being used to fight close range, for we spar at close range without padding. In addition, you get the benefit of training with weapons early on without having to go through the mystical nonsense as some martial arts systems.

Thanks...So what other styles do your FMA mates used when they spar? Also what have you noticed works well with the wrestlers and mma guy?

[JPinAZ]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

- Your opponent's right hand grabs on your right wrist.
- When you try to use your left hand to punch on his face,
- he pulls your right arm toward your left (his right).
- your body will be pulled and spin to your left,
- Your left arm will be jamed by your own right arm, and
- your left hand won't be able to reach to his nose.

If your opponent doesn't know how to do this, he will deserve to be punched on his nose by your left hand.

There is "smart" grab and there is "stupid" grab. A "smart" grab requires:

- proper angle (use your leading arm to jam your back arm),
- shaking (give you a quick shacking to destroy your structure),
- double controls (one hand grabs on your wrist while the other hand grabs on your elbow),
- footwork (move toward your side door - blind spot).

While the first part makes sense, I think all grabbing is stupid. If I grab someone, the grabbing hand is now 'dead' and can't be used for hitting or defending. I'd rather hit then grab. Control my space - distort opponent's facing and COG - hit when the opportunity arises.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by JPinAZ

While the first part makes sense, I think all grabbing is stupid. If I grab someone, the grabbing hand is now 'dead' and can't be used for hitting or defending. I'd rather hit then grab. Control my space - distort opponent's facing and COG - hit when the opportunity arises.

Why not grab and punch simultaneously! While flanking your opponent structure! Are turning his center so you on his blind side!

[trubblman]

Originally Posted by JPinAZ

I think all grabbing is stupid. If I grab someone, the grabbing hand is now 'dead' and can't be used for hitting or defending.

If ALL grabbing is stupid then that raises the question; why is grabbing in VT if its stupid? If it is stupid I would imagine then all the VT predecessors would have discarded it by now.

[Yoshiyahu]

Originally Posted by Jox

Important point to remember..., every time I practice.

Wu Wei...

Jox,

Bruce Lee words precisely

Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po

It appears then that we are in total aggreance, only using different words to say so.
I have never actually enjoyed fighting. I don't think I have ever had a fight that I was not at least scared. Or at least fearful of being beaten or hurt. This is what fighting is about.
I worked in a night club in Grand Prairie, Texas once that was probably the worst job I have ever taken. We had 30 bouncers and could not keep the peace. I think that most of the patrons actually came there to fight. They would train and work out hard all week and come friday and saturday night they would come to fight. The other half came to watch. It started at the front door no sooner than it opened and it was a running fist fight until we closed. We had a metal detector at the door and tried to keep guns and knives out, but they still got in. I lasted about a month, but had to quite because I stayed so sore and bruised it took me hours to get up and moving every morning. I have had a lot of jobs like that, and a few that were not exactly the same, but almost as bad.

lol buddy you need to get an education so you can get a new line of work!