Here is the best evidence for lack of ground fighting in Kung fu

[LivingArt]

The lack of ground fighting, in most martial art systems, likely stems from the fact that many of them were developed or refined during times of war.

Wrestling/ground arts are great for sports and law enforcement, but outside of these instances i find them incredibly impractical.

[Dragonzbane76]

Wrestling/ground arts are great for sports and law enforcement, but outside of these instances i find them incredibly impractical.

Hum, thats funny I find many applications of tcma incredibly impractical and unrealistic in concern with self defense.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The lack of ground fighting, in most martial art systems, likely stems from the fact that many of them were developed or refined during times of war.

Wrestling/ground arts are great for sports and law enforcement, but outside of these instances i find them incredibly impractical.

That's pretty unfortunate that you have that outlook, considering that grappling is the best way to negate grappling. Also, just because you do not want to end up on the ground doesn't mean that you shouldn't train it in case you end up there. As I said, grappling negates grappling and rooting, sprawling, and hooking will allow you to stuff your opponent's takedown.

Street scenirio, guy shoots on you, single or double leg, you sprawl on him with your chest on his back. Now you want the situation to go away and if you stand back up he may try to take you down again. From the sprawl you spin and take back mount and sink in a rear naked choke. Guy goes out, you get up and walk away.

Ask yourself this, what is the difference in controlling with the choke or pounding the guy with strikes while sprawled. You are still down, you have vision to where you can look around to make sure he does not have friends attacking you. Like I said if you stand up who's to say he does not take you down again??

The point is for all saying the ground is not where I want to be sometimes you don't have a choice in the matter.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And the video evidence is...where? Kung fu used to claim all the time it could deal with the ground aspect. Last I checked they never did bjj on the lei tai. Anyone can make any claim.

Hardwork8 makes the claim about his secret wing chun system all the time. Do you believe him as well?

You need to re-read what I wrote.
As for video evidence of Sifu Patterson's guys doing ground work, I have nev3er seen any so I can't comment on that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The lack of ground fighting, in most martial art systems, likely stems from the fact that many of them were developed or refined during times of war.

Wrestling/ground arts are great for sports and law enforcement, but outside of these instances i find them incredibly impractical.

You need to get out more.

[LivingArt]

Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, its awesome getting attacked for them on a message board made for discussion.

And we can all pull situational scenarios out of our arses all day long if we're so inclined. Fact is if you're not in a ring/cage/closed off area only a dumb person would allow themselves to be taken down. It doesnt come down to sprawling, it comes down to avoiding the most telegraphed move ever.

And yes, all martial arts have moves that look useless or arent practical. Thats not what this thread is about, is it?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, its awesome getting attacked for them on a message board made for discussion.

And we can all pull situational scenarios out of our arses all day long if we're so inclined. Fact is if you're not in a ring/cage/closed off area only a dumb person would allow themselves to be taken down. It doesnt come down to sprawling, it comes down to avoiding the most telegraphed move ever.
And yes, all martial arts have moves that look useless or arent practical. Thats not what this thread is about, is it?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Everyone has their own preferences and opinions, its awesome getting attacked for them on a message board made for discussion.

And we can all pull situational scenarios out of our arses all day long if we're so inclined. Fact is if you're not in a ring/cage/closed off area only a dumb person would allow themselves to be taken down. It doesnt come down to sprawling, it comes down to avoiding the most telegraphed move ever.

And yes, all martial arts have moves that look useless or arent practical. Thats not what this thread is about, is it?

Please feel free to go to the nearest MMA gym and test your theory, please don't forget to record it too

[LivingArt]

I sure cant get anything past you. Im obviously a troll. Your mastery of figuring out exactly the kind of martial artist and person i am from one observation is impressive sir. You deserve a big ol' hug and jerk off session from your ego, congrats.

[Mike Patterson]

If Kung fu had ground fighting there would be video of it. Why do I believe this? Because Kung fu has extensive YouTube vids on every other aspect: forms, dragon dancing, chi Sao, some sparring.

All the hardwork8's and all the Mike Patterson's of the world say different but unless a video is shown....

Wilson, it's clear that you don't care for me much. That's fine.

I'm a professional martial artist. This is ALL I do. So I spend my time teaching, practicing and refining my skills. I have neither the time nor inclination to post things on youtube just for the sake of other's entertainment. The videos I have put up there are leader clips for DVDs I've produced. If I get around to doing a vid for the ground aspect of what we do, then it will be there. And I'm thinking many others are similarly minded.

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and take potshots at folks. But please do not imply that I am lacking in integrity. If you wish to call me an anomaly in the TCMA world, feel free. But my statements still stand in regards to how I was trained and the predominant mind set of that era in which I was initially trained. As I have said before, I was also amazed at the seemingly tremendous gaps in knowledge and skill sets in the TCMA people I initially encountered when coming back to the U.S. and I am still frequently amazed at those same gaps, which appear to be widening as opposed to closing.

I think it is simply due to the fact that many TCMA folks have forgotten their roots in terms of fighting. I assure you, I have not. Although you are always free to look me up in person and find out for yourself.

[David Jamieson]

I sure cant get anything past you. Im obviously a troll. Your mastery of figuring out exactly the kind of martial artist and person i am from one observation is impressive sir. You deserve a big ol' hug and jerk off session from your ego, congrats.

I think he was pointing out the error in your assumption that a take down is telegraphed.

I don't think he was calling you a troll, just that he thinks you are wrong about take downs and shoots as being easily dealt with.

I agree that they are not easy to deal with. The sprawl really is the answer to most of those types of tackle attacks and leg attacks. Not because it's a wrestling thing, but because the applied physics are correct.

When he says go try it out in a mma gym, he's being sincere, not goading you. Any real martial artist takes at least some points in time in their training to go and test against the unknown.

that is the spirit of martial arts and how they get properly developed away from ritual dance and into practical violence.

just guessing.

[Lucas]

just for discussin:

there is more than one kind of shoot, and a shot is often done after a set up, so regardless of if it is telegraphed or not, you can still be taken down via set up. of course it is always up to each individual as to how they want to develop their martial arts. it is more common than ever now that in real life you will have to deal with a shoot, due to the popularity of mma and grappling itself. face it, better men than you or i have been taken down when they thought they couldnt be. thats a fact.

[TenTigers]

just for discussin:

there is more than one kind of shoot, and a shot is often done after a set up, so regardless of if it is telegraphed or not, you can still be taken down via set up. of course it is always up to each individual as to how they want to develop their martial arts. it is more common than ever now that in real life you will have to deal with a shoot, due to the popularity of mma and grappling itself. face it, better men than you or i have been taken down when they thought they couldnt be. thats a fact.

well.. there seems to be no reason for me to post now....

[David Jamieson]

well.. there seems to be no reason for me to post now....

Lucas is trouble that way...

[LivingArt]

David i thank you for your reasonable attitude, and im sure you are correct.

However i think its also important for martial artists not to assume the extent of each others knowledge. I put my opinion and view out there and was immediatly called ignorant for it. Thats basically underestimating your opponent and if anythings bad for martial arts its over indulgent ego and style pride.

I've practiced muay thai, jujitsu, wing chun, and bagua and still work bits of each into my training. If you want to use bjj in a group fight more power to you just dont be suprised when your face/chest gets stomped in.