If only they knewOriginally Posted by sanjuro_ronin
But they did have the same base as the Gracieswhats 'tap out' in mandarin/cantonese ?
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If only they knewBut they did have the same base as the Gracies
Last edited by k gledhill; 10-25-2011 at 06:22 AM.
Banned
And there are even more such techniques where those came from. Incidentally, one cannot help but notice some of those "hard to apply" striking techniques are performed only after one is controlling the opponent with a grappling technique first.
The "there is no grappling and ground fighting in the TCMA" crowd here, must be feeling like real p&cker heads, just about now (or whenever they see clip you posted).
Of course, for some of us intermediate students, the facts demonstrated in your video-clip is nothing new. Infact, I have been referring to the grappling and ground fighting approach of some TCMAs in this forum for years.
Good find, and thanks for posting.
Registered User
theres ground fighting, look at this one...aka "when hillbilies get drunk and fight"And there are even more such techniques where those came from. Incidentally, one cannot help but notice some of those "hard to apply" striking techniques are performed only after one is controlling the opponent with a grappling technique first.
The "there is no grappling and ground fighting in the TCMA" crowd here, must be feeling like real ****** heads, just about now (or whenever they see clip you posted).
Of course, for some of us intermediate students, the facts demonstrated in your video-clip is nothing new. Infact, I have been referring to the grappling and ground fighting approach of some TCMAs in this forum for years.
Good find, and thanks for posting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNXhw...eature=related
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Whatever the Mandarin equivelant for "matte" is.If only they knew
One does admire that in those days the CMA were far more open to adapt things from other systems, in this case Judo/jujutsu, then their modern counter-parts.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Banned
Actually, that video was pretty good. The fights were full contact and intense, while one could see some Wing Chun essence. I would work more on the solidity of the stances and focus a little more on the angling, as well as emotional control, but hey, the video was not bad. If more Wing Chun practitioners sparred harder (but using WC, not kickboxing), then they would do better in real life encounters.
As for grappling and ground fighting, the fact is that most WC and even other TCMA schools do not delve much into it, so you are not going to see top noch Kung fu grappling that often. Even so, I could see a little bit in that video clip you provided.
By the way, what school/lineage is this Wing Chun?
Registered User
Wing Chun groundwork (if it really exists) is bull****
If the patriarch of the style, HW108's sifu, can barely handle a disabled ex-judoka with a couple of (long since passed) training then its redundant anyway
When it does happen, it's fast and hard and over quick. Either I'm standing or he's standing. That's Real.
nospam
You type because you have fingers. Not because you have logic.
Phil Redmond
Wing Chun Fighter
I have to agree with you mate...
WC does posses some of 70 chin na techniques and some basic throws or take downs. But in essence WC is not system devoted to take downs and chin na. It is devoted to striking. Every thing you do from defend and attack, trapping and flanking are tools to control your opponent so you can strike him with out being struck back.
Wing Chun is not a ground fighting art!
There is a major difference between judo,akikido, chin na oppose to BJJ and collegiate wresting!
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Banned
What you say and what I "heard" are too different versions. The "disabled" person you speak of was someone who had burn scars from an unfortunate accident from a long time ago.
His limbs were fine, and he was not a small person. He was a current MMAist/Crosstrainer (I know, because I conversed with him) who unlike the hundreds of "Wing Chun" stylists in London who were informed about this seminar, showed up to gain knowledge, and walked out of there with a lot more knowledge than you, because he had the guts to try his MMA on my sifu.
So, why are you implying physical handicap as regards this person???? What would you have done if he had taken you down on the wooden floor with the same force as he did sifu? I bet you might just have been knocked unconscious with that impact!!!
Why LIE?
He took sifu down and within moments was under sifu's control.
I am not sure what your frequent snipes at my sifu are all about. Let me just clarify that one of the reasons we organized that event was for him to present his Mainland Chinese lineage to the WC world, not to start opening up franchises and threaten the business interests of already established Wing Chun franchises - so don't worry!
This silly bad mouthing and Wing chun rivaleries are just that, silly. Also, if you had any doubts about his system's functionality or his own combat skills, that was your chance to show it to him. Yet, years later you are seating behind your keyboard and in a cowardly manner LYING, making implications and bad mouthing him and his system of Wing Chun, to which you have obviously had limited exposure!
By the way, there IS ground fighting in some lineages of Wing Chun as there are in Hsing I - read sifu Mike Patterson's comments in the Kung fu Forum - as regards his Hsing I training many moons ago in Taiwan, as well as his comments regarding all the other kung fu styles that trained ground fighting - "as just another range". Some Shaolin schools also practice the ground.
You "parachuting" in and making snipes at my sifu, is becoming tiring. Save it for the next time he is in your end of the woods!!!!
Last edited by Hardwork108; 11-04-2011 at 03:25 PM.
Banned
No one is claiming that Wing Chun is a "groundfighting" art!
Wing Chun Fighter
thank you!
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
HW108
I have nothing against your sifu. Nothing at all. He was humble. he presented his kung fu as his kung fu, nothing secret, nothing unusual, nothing unique.
I guess my issue may even be with you. or at least the way you try to portray him
he didnt try to be the great grandmaster you try to make him out to be, and yes - it was evident that he's a fighter.
The ex-judo guy was merely that, and ex judo guy who had partial use of one arm. not anything else.
He wasnt taken down hard, he didnt get instant victory either. He got an arm bar but he struggled. Thats the nature of grappling when you have two guys of a similar level
you're relying on second hand information from (perhaps?) another idol worshipping student. You were not there whereas I was. As was Lone Tiger. Your information didnt come from your sifu because he's banished you hasnt he?
If he's ever in town again I'd be happy to meet and play a little with him. Or you. No challenge here before you start with that bs either.
In regards to me and him touching hands - we did, albeit very briefly. he was demoing something and he asked me to stop him. Then told me I moved before I should. Again, there is a first hand witness for this on this forum
to clarify, hes a fighter with a different way for wing chun, which by his own admission has been influenced by the other arts he's studied. I asked that specific question and he gave me that specific answer
he was a nioce enough guy and anyone who thinks otherwise is influenced by your ramblings on here
When it does happen, it's fast and hard and over quick. Either I'm standing or he's standing. That's Real.
nospam
You type because you have fingers. Not because you have logic.
Phil Redmond
Registered User
Why do people always make the mistake of assuming ground fighting = grappling. Striking whilst on the ground is also ground fighting. IMHO Wing Chun ground work isn't adding in locks, chokes and grappling moves even if labelled as chin na, it is about taking what you do standing up and applying it whilst on the ground. It takes practice and will never work unless its trained regularly but it does work if you persevere.
A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
Wing Chun kung fu in Redditch
Worcestershire Wing Chun Kuen on facebook
Banned
Yes, and I believe you despite you false claims!!!
Finally something positive about him comes out of your writings.
Everybody's kung fu is "his own kung fu", or at least that is what it becomes when you make it your own. You may have misunderstood him, as his kung fu comes from a valid lineage!
You didn't expect him to teach you secrets in a seminar, did you? Look any discipline such as kung fu will have secrets. I am not talking about magic powers and fantasy stuff, but the more obscure methodologies.
Well it seems that at least the ground fighting training of the style is unique and specially unusual in a forum that most people did not think that ANY kung fu style addressed ground fighting.
There are other unique stuff, but you did not expect to have been taught them all in a seminar, most of which you seem to have misunderstood?
Sorry, but you are "running away"! Quote me something about the way I have portraid him that has rubbed you the wrong way.
The main poing - AGAIN - is that ground fighting training is part of the traditional syllabus of this system, as well as other none Mcdojo TCMAs!
Again, more LIES! Where did I make him out to be a "great grand master". I mean he is a great sifu, but why do you put words in my mouth in order to justify you immoral forum behavior?
I had actually met the "ex judo" guy. He claimed to be MMA practitioner. He had genuine interest in this rare lineage of wing chun - unlike most WC people who were informed of the seminar! I did not notice anything wrong with his arm.
I remember it differently. Yes you heard right!!!
He was taken down hard on the wooden floor (his back was bruised badly afterwards from the impact). He stopped the other guy quickly.
You would have liked that wouldn't you? LOL!
Or perhaps I just did not want myself identified to the members of the world wide web - kung fu internet forum?
I am not idol worshipping and I have never been. Furthermore, my sifu does not have any idol worshipping students. He would not like them to be that way. He is well respected and even loved as a sifu and in some cases as a true friend.
Right about now, you should be hypothesising that perhaps I was there too.....
"Banished"?
More LIES!
Many of you guys have the same MO. You disagree with someone who actually practicies TCMAs and then you invent lies or spread other people's lies, to discredit that person!!
I would be happy too!
The "BS" was all yours, not mine, as I am not known for my challenge issuing behavior during the years I have been posting in this forum.
My point before was that if you are going to sit in a seminar and then throw doubt on someone's abilities and credibility, by calling something "BS" - years later - then you are better off "testing" them yourself, when they are standing in front of you.
I personally do not remember that, it does not sound like him. The person I know, would have patted you on the back and said, "very good".
Then you misunderstood!
That could have been an innocent misunderstanding, or a case of "if my WC doesn't have it, then it must have been added" view point, that may have influenced the way you perceived his words.
He teaches what he teaches out of the style's traditional syllabus. Of course, he puts a lot himself into it, but all real sifus do. That is different from saying that he adds other techniques from other styles. He even advises people not to cross train until they have solid understanding of the style.
It seems that you are the one who is rambling.
My "ramblings" should not "influence" anyone as I try to keep my sifu out of most discussions, except for general references to what he teaches when relevant!
I have a Mantis sifu as well, and he teaches a lot of stuff most people have no clue about in this forum.
So, feel free to draw conclusions about him, as well, based on my "ramblings"!!!!!
Last edited by Hardwork108; 11-12-2011 at 09:10 AM.
pagan kickboxing taoist
makes me smile.
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
Banned
Those of us who actually practice the TCMAs contribute, those who don't, merely "smile" (what else can they do? LOL!)......makes me smile.
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