Qigong's Buddhist Origins

[David Jamieson]

First of all Ide like to say that the Chinese did not invent "Chi Kung" or Kung FU or the existence of these topics which has been around for eons passed down by the ancient ones also known as the Annunaki or Elohim God head.

While I personally have no problem with them, Buddhism is New Age spiritualism when compared to the real ancient cultures which have existed much longer and in a way which Buddhisms aim to deceive that it is really the most old ancient culture there is is in fact false.

I have studied and taken two courses in Buddhism i at Hunter College in NY and no where in any book has Buddha stated I am a God make a statue and worship me yet there are many who believe that Buddhism is a religion and made statues and worship and pray to Buddha although there is no evidence he has existed at all or has he ever stated " I am a God".

The Chinese did not invent herbal medicine that is also false , There are other cultures such as the Sumerians, Babylonians that had it way before them circa 6000 bc.. I have nothing against the Chinese but they are trying to say they are the oldest source when they are not.
Sorry Charlie.

I put it to you or anyone else who challenges what I have said to prove that I am wrong in what I said and show me where Buddha said he was a God.

Let Jah Light Shine and Reveal, JDR

Two courses you say? Zounds, you're a veritable walking library of Buddhist knowledge! Say, you must have missed out on the Lotus Sutra though where Lord Guatama proclaims that all men are his children and that he is their father.

Now, Buddha pointed out that we all had god potential within us each, but it was only through his path that we could get in touch with that.

So, maybe in your flaky courses, Buddha wasn't god, but in fact, not unlike Jesus, he clearly alludes to it being so. Several times!

Just saying.

P.S been a lifelong thing for me. I put a lot of it down as I took the path. the essence, which weighs nothing, is not difficult to carry or remember. :-)

Also, it seems like you have an issue with theh CHinese people who do in fact have the longest continual unbroken history of all cultures.

You have no idea what herbs sumerians used, so why even mention it? The fact of the matter is that the the Nei Ching is indeed likely to be one of the very oldest medical treatises ever written by men and therefore, a nod to the Chinese is in order.

[ghostexorcist]

Hey Ghost,

[...]

If we apply this to the early generations of Chan there is only 170 years (approx) between Damo and the Shaolin lineage record. This is a short time when you consider the overlap of generations. It doesn't make sense for it to be completely fabricated. Certainly legends can be born (especially in a time before clear science when the supernatural is believable and a way of life). But I do not believe the lineage could be so easily corrupted. Not only would they have had more records to work with in 710 but also the living memory of many old monks. When they wrote stuff down then, it would have had to already been reasonably well established.

[...]

Regarding memory, the Shaolin monks once wove a wicker statue of Vajrapani that was placed in their "Kimnara hall" during the 17th century. A century later, the monks of the new generation believed that Vajrapani himself had created it. Memories are not static and unchanging, any psychologist can attest to this.

I have presented the scholarly stance on the subject. You have at least admitted that the historical Bodhidharma had nothing to do with Shaolin martial arts. That is the only thing I was striving for. I'm afraid that this is as far as we can go in the discussion. I understand that you are emotionally invested in the subject, so nothing else that I might present will change your mind. I hope you have a pleasant day.

[Scott R. Brown]

Two courses you say? Zounds, you're a veritable walking library of Buddhist knowledge! Say, you must have missed out on the Lotus Sutra though where Lord Guatama proclaims that all men are his children and that he is their father.

Now, Buddha pointed out that we all had god potential within us each, but it was only through his path that we could get in touch with that.

So, maybe in your flaky courses, Buddha wasn't god, but in fact, not unlike Jesus, he clearly alludes to it being so. Several times!

Just saying.

P.S been a lifelong thing for me. I put a lot of it down as I took the path. the essence, which weighs nothing, is not difficult to carry or remember. :-)

Also, it seems like you have an issue with theh CHinese people who do in fact have the longest continual unbroken history of all cultures.

You have no idea what herbs sumerians used, so why even mention it? The fact of the matter is that the the Nei Ching is indeed likely to be one of the very oldest medical treatises ever written by men and therefore, a nod to the Chinese is in order.

Yeah! But you still didn't prove him wrong!!!

[wenshu]

If somebody is proven wrong then we have to stop arguing.

[wenshu]

please provide proof that Jah exists and has any role in the shining of light and / or the revealing of things;

ummmmm, textual evidence

[Scott R. Brown]

ummmmm, textual evidence

Ummmm...isn't that a textual referrence?

So if I mention unicorns on a big rock they exist too?

I used to read comic books when I was kid. I can't wait to meet Spiderman in person!

And you can't prove me wrong either!!!!!

[RenDaHai]

You have at least admitted that the historical Bodhidharma had nothing to do with Shaolin martial arts. That is the only thing I was striving for. I'm afraid that this is as far as we can go in the discussion. I understand that you are emotionally invested in the subject, so nothing else that I might present will change your mind. I hope you have a pleasant day.

Well, a fair point. Very well then.

I'm not so emotionally invested, I would change my mind in light of facts which show to the contrary. But as to conjecture, it doesn't sway me as much as I have plenty enough of my own along with experience of living in this culture for a long time.

It is theorised that humans evolved greater reasoning ability simply to argue more.... Enhancing survival by making better group decisions and off course to enhance ones dominance in a group . This is more why I am arguing I think! :-) I blame nature.


In closing then, Even if we look at recent events such as 911 where we have a great number of facts, there are still conflicting ideas as to what happened. If you ask me I'd say it was because of a bunch of p*ssed off muslims, but ask the rest of the world and:



So how much hope do we have of really knowing what happened 1000 years ago? How will people see us in 1000 years time? I think a spirited argument is about the best we can do.

[extrajoseph]

Every fact generates a host of opinions, one day there were two tall towers, next day there were none, afterward, there were many theories to explain what happened and after that, the theories remain and the fact forgotten.

May be we should stick to the fact that there is Qigong of Buddhist origin and forget about the theories of Qigong's Buddhist origin.

If we cannot, then at least remember that they are just our opinions and nothing more, unless there are facts to prove otherwise, but then, they will in turn generate a host of new theories and that is a fact, or is it just another one of my theories?

[wenshu]

So if I mention unicorns on a big rock they exist too?

I used to read comic books when I was kid. I can't wait to meet Spiderman in person!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

[Foiling Fist]

According to the book “The Secret Collection of Shaolin Qigong” (少林氣功秘集) written and edited by Shi De-Qian and Xu Qin-Yan (釋德虔 徐勤燕 編著)。

http://www.pcono.com/136488.html

少林氣功，源遠流長，約起源于北魏太和年間，距今有一千五百多年的歷史。公元496年，少林寺的開創者跋陀 的門徒稠禪師就能夠踏牆橫行四次，還能持丈解虎等等，可見稠禪師身藏很高的氣功卓技，可列為少林寺最早的一 位氣功武術大師。

“Shaolin Qigong has a long history, it began round about the Tai He Years in the Northern Wei Period (477-499 AD), with more than 1,500 years of history. In the year 496Ad, a disciple of Bei Tuo (跋陀), the founder of Shaolin Temple, by the name of Chou Chanshi (Chan Master Chou) 稠禪師, can be seen walking up a wall diagonally 4 times in a row, and he can also subdue a tiger with a staff and things like that, so one can see he has a high level of Qigong skill, and we can regard him as one of the earlier Qigong and Wushu master of Shaolin Temple.”.

Shi De-Qian, was a former Fang Zhang (the First Abbot, or Head Master) of the Songsan Mountain Shaolin Temple and a noted historian of Shaolin martial arts, so what he said about Shaolin Qigong is credible, IMHO. He only died recently on August 23rd. this year (2011).

Shi also mentioned in his book Damo arrived at Songshan in the year 527 AD, so it seems Buddhist Qigong from Shaolin Temple has its origin before the arrival of Damo.

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Very interesting. Anything mentioned about the state of Buddhism at that time, or how Shaolin Buddhism was unique?

[Scott R. Brown]

****

Very interesting. Anything mentioned about the state of Buddhism at that time, or how Shaolin Buddhism was unique?

You mean aside from the fact Buddhism was 900 years old by that time?

[rett]

You mean aside from the fact Buddhism was 900 years old by that time?

It feels to me like Buddhism is about 1 second old right now.

[Scott R. Brown]

It feels to me like Buddhism is about 1 second old right now.

Show off!!!!

[wenshu]

It feels to me like Buddhism is about 1 second old right now.

What's buddhism?

[David Jamieson]

Chinese Buddhism in general was unique because it was Mahayana and not Theravada in scope. Compounded to that unique vibe in Buddhism was the Ch'an which was seeded by the lanka vatara sutra (the lanka) and is now known as zen more widely, which was a Shaolin innovation and contribution to Buddhism.

This is one of the three treasures of Shaolin. (Ch'an/zen).

What is Buddhism? It is seeking the potential within yourself (the Tathāgata womb)to end your own suffering in life and to give you the strength of compassion to asist others in ending theirs.