Alan Orr Questions 4 - Chain Punching

[Alan Orr]

What you two show me is that you dont understand wu sao. You can agree with each other , rant [wayfaring] and show clips of guys kickboxing [alan], it doesnt change the fact that WU sao has a specific role AND position.
I have no care whether you give 2 sh*ts

Why keep taking time to post then? Cool pic, which one is you? lol

[trubblman]

What you two show me is that you dont understand wu sao. You can agree with each other , rant [wayfaring] and show clips of guys kickboxing [alan], it doesnt change the fact that WU sao has a specific role AND position.
I have no care whether you give 2 sh*ts

Moe is trying to show Larry how to defeat Curly's guard with the 2 finger biu ji strike to the eyes.

[Alan Orr]

Moe is trying to show Larry how to defeat Curly's guard with the 2 finger biu ji strike to the eyes.

If its good enough for the stooges then its good enough for me!

[WC1277]

Wu sau does have variables in angles but not so much in height. To retain the same structure at the height of your forehead, a short-extended biu sau would be far more structurally sound. Despite our brief agreement we had, Alan, about making the opponent "lean on your wall" conversation, I really do think you are taking much more creative freedom with your supposed "Wing Chun" than is really acceptable IMO. Why not just call it something else similar to Jeet Kune Do origins? Sure, you have WC influence, but influence at best, is what I'd call your b@stardized version of it. The naysayers will leave you alone and you'll truly have a MMA style you can call your own. Everybody wins, but most importantly, you won't look like a fool trying to make a fortune cookie, which inherently are universal, apply to ring fighting concepts.

[Wayfaring]

What you two show me is that you dont understand wu sao.

Well then why don't you educate us on what the hell you would do with a wu sau in a full contact ring type match, rather than all your left-handed insults, stupid descriptions, and images of 3 stooges.

Unless you can do that then your criticism is void of any content and thus rightly should be discounted. Ridicule and "you don't understand" statements don't cut it.

[Wayfaring]

Wu sau does have variables in angles but not so much in height. To retain the same structure at the height of your forehead, a short-extended biu sau would be far more structurally sound.

Wrong. Jong sau (outer hand) - wu sau - with structure (inner hand) elbows on the nipple line protects your upper gate.

If something gets past your wu hand covering with a hand connected to your head is simply the most practical option to protect yourself without giving up space.

[WC1277]

Wrong. Jong sau (outer hand) - wu sau - with structure (inner hand) elbows on the nipple line protects your upper gate.

You don't know what you're talking about....

[Chadderz]

Despite our brief agreement we had, Alan, about making the opponent "lean on your wall" conversation, I really do think you are taking much more creative freedom with your supposed "Wing Chun" than is really acceptable IMO. Why not just call it something else similar to Jeet Kune Do origins? Sure, you have WC influence, but influence at best, is what I'd call your b@stardized version of it. The naysayers will leave you alone and you'll truly have a MMA style you can call your own. Everybody wins, but most importantly, you won't look like a fool trying to make a fortune cookie, which inherently are universal, apply to ring fighting concepts.

Somebody sounds a bit jealous. I'd say Alan grasps Wing Chun, and combat in general a lot better than form huggers.

[GlennR]

Wu sau does have variables in angles but not so much in height. To retain the same structure at the height of your forehead, a short-extended biu sau would be far more structurally sound. Despite our brief agreement we had, Alan, about making the opponent "lean on your wall" conversation, I really do think you are taking much more creative freedom with your supposed "Wing Chun" than is really acceptable IMO. Why not just call it something else similar to Jeet Kune Do origins? Sure, you have WC influence, but influence at best, is what I'd call your b@stardized version of it. The naysayers will leave you alone and you'll truly have a MMA style you can call your own. Everybody wins, but most importantly, you won't look like a fool trying to make a fortune cookie, which inherently are universal, apply to ring fighting concepts.

Ahhh, great to see your reality based opinion again.

[GlennR]

You make a lot of and poke a lot of fun at the wu sau adaptation which is really nothing more than a mma adaptation of the inner hand to cover strikes. Boxers and MT fighters cover similarly with the hand touching the head. Why do they do this? Because it presents more structure against a hard hitting punch than hanging a hand out in space with a collapsed elbow, which is only going to work against slap fighting attacks.

What is the purpose of wu sau? Of the inner hand? To pick up what passes the outer hand mun sau, to "hand off" from the outer hand to the inner hand, to present a secondary front for defending attacks from entering your space, to be the "inner gate". Does the wu hand traditionally contact the head? No, but against a powerful strike the additional structure may be necessary to deflect the power of the attack. A hard strike can collapse a hand in to the point where you are getting hit by your own hands if you don't defend it properly. How it plays out is one punch in a combo is hard enough to collapse in on you, then the 2nd and 3rd combos already have you on the run and do more damage. This is what it is like sparring against a pro boxer for example. Unless your defense is very tight you're going to be on the run.

What this shows me about you is that you never spar with strikes that have enough power to knock someone out. That proves pretty true by all the YouTube stuff I see which more resembles middle school slap fights than full power striking matches.

If your whole system is built around ideals like that then it is going to fold under pressure when you are really getting hit hard.

If people can't find the ingenuity to look beyond traditionalism and can only see to the point of rejecting a concept if it "looks like boxing" and can't broaden their viewpoints to apply WC in other scenarios then WC is doomed to die out as an art IMO.

Thats a great post WF
Youre bang on in regards to people not trialling themselves to big shots. Weve just had a guy with 7 years WC experience, 6ft 3 and id say 90kg who quickly stated that he was unable to deal with the power we could throw at him (MT).

Everytime he tried to how us a response to something he crumpled.
Was he great at WC? No. Was he bad? No, he was ok.
But he's like so may guys out there that just havent got out there and tested what they have learnt.
GlennR

[Alan Orr]

Wu sau does have variables in angles but not so much in height. To retain the same structure at the height of your forehead, a short-extended biu sau would be far more structurally sound. Despite our brief agreement we had, Alan, about making the opponent "lean on your wall" conversation, I really do think you are taking much more creative freedom with your supposed "Wing Chun" than is really acceptable IMO. Why not just call it something else similar to Jeet Kune Do origins? Sure, you have WC influence, but influence at best, is what I'd call your b@stardized version of it. The naysayers will leave you alone and you'll truly have a MMA style you can call your own. Everybody wins, but most importantly, you won't look like a fool trying to make a fortune cookie, which inherently are universal, apply to ring fighting concepts.

Its a point of view. No one can tell me what is correct in CSL wing chun other that my teacher. I don't think I look like a fool and would not worry about that anyway, thanks. My wing chun is very pure in terms of principles on the martial arts. We are not limited to not growing and developing

As stated my others, you are showing a limited view. What I am doing is training and used my fighters. Wing Chun is a fighting system. Put some gloves on and spar then tell me what happens.

[k gledhill]

Wrong. Jong sau (outer hand) - wu sau - with structure (inner hand) elbows on the nipple line protects your upper gate.

If something gets past your wu hand covering with a hand connected to your head is simply the most practical option to protect yourself without giving up space.

Clueless.....

[Alan Orr]

Clueless.....

Are you? I am sure you can drill you way to enlightenment.

[Wayfaring]

Clueless.....

Enjoy your fantasy world, where you can fight and have PB's love child.

Muppet.

[Wayfaring]

You don't know what you're talking about....

Coming from the guy whose solution is "a half extended biu sau". That's much better than bong or tan, right?

These threads are certainly seperating out the fighters from the fantasy boys.