Bad the Fukc Ass
what about 'divine interaction' such as jesus coming back from the dead? if jesus really did come back from the dead, that is pretty substantial and against the 'realm of reality' that we all currently adhere to.
so do people actually believe the dead body of jesus came back to life through divine ressurection??
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Yes, that would be THE miracle for Christianity ( of course for all we know that might be a natural possibility that the universe has yet to show us).Originally Posted by Lucas
And to answer your question, YES, people did and do believe that Jesus's body was resurrected ( though it no longer was a "human" body after that).
Just remember this:
2000 years ago a virgin birth was a miracle and that is NOT the case today.
Who knows what 2000 years from now a "resurrection" may be ?
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Itinerant practitioner
Yes of course people believe he returned from the dead. The whole religion of Christianity hinges on it. Unless you're Bishop Spong who believe the whole religion really hinges on the teachings and himself doesn't believe Jesus was resurrected.
I personally am down with the message of Christianity. But I don't believe Jesus was resurrected and I don't even think that is important to the message.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
First, it is important, as with any knowledge field, to study the subject for yourself and not just take anyone's word for it.
There is a plethora of information on mystics who have all had, basically, the same experience. They have written about them. There are differences, but a reasonably intelligent person, looking for patterns will be able to discern that the differences may be attributed to cultural influences and the individual's ability to communicate non-verbal experiences. Some individuals are better at it then others. It is similar to someone writing a novel being able to communicate their point more effectively than someone without writing ability or talent.
Some people use prose, some poetry, some paint, or use other means. But there are similar patterns of a basically identical experience.
Secondly, it unimportant what another person experiences other than it may be a guide for others to have the experience for themselves.
One of the problems is we have dimwits who don't want to take responsibility for their own lives and want others tell them how to live their lives. Then they give their underage children to the leader for sex, or drink Kool-Aid laced with poison.
If someone claims a transcendent experience tells a person to do something it does not mean that person should give up simple reasoning skills in order to conform to the group-think of a cult. If is doesn't pass the smell test, DON'T EAT IT!!!!
Just as there are bad Doctors and bad Lawyers, Teachers, Politicians, Mechanics, Carpenters, etc., so there are bad religious leaders who are pathological, dishonest, or psycho.
The effects of God are potentially experience-able by anyone as well as the effects of gravity. But as with just about anything else in life, buyer beware. Take responsibility for your own decisions and do not blindly follow anyone. Do your own research.
NIII
I am not an Atheist. And I never once mentioned my education. You should try not to be so easily offended. You can argue that you weren't, but your sarcasm didn't come from a sense of affinity with my words.Well...since you are so well educated and have such a high IQ surely you know studies can be made to say whatever the researchers want them to say!
Anyone who believes everything social scientists say, much less hard scientists, is surely a person to admire!
I posted the results of the study to see what people thought, not to say I'm so smart. You need to back off of that, it's unbecoming.
It was a very simple study. It tested IQ and cognitive ability, has a questionnaire about experience and education and then asked the subjects to rate their beliefs.
Anyone have any evidence that suggests otherwise? Glad to take a look at the work.
NIII
180 is like insane smart. 140 is mensa smart. You are technically a genius at that point. Hawking is like 177. Einstien was like 160. Gates is 160. Whareas M Ali and Andy warhol both had IQ's around 80. Where were you tested??? It wasn't an online one was it? And what was it, Stanford-Binet or Cattell or what? Cause that does matter, they aren't all the same and some are more accurate than others. Some do a better job at seperating environmental factors and stuff like that.Not to toot my horn but... my IQ is over the 180.
I have a Bach in Business and Mech Eng and graduated from both in the top 5% of my respective classes.
I am working on my Bach in theology just for the fun of it
The majority of people I know that are also believers would be considered "above average" in the intelligence department.
And example of the type of website I like to read in regards to religion is:
Biologos.org
Go through the people that submit articles and essays there and you will see some very intelligent people.
And while you may argue that the exception is not the rule, I submit that you may not have enough info to "make a rule" on this.
Sorry.
About the results, you gotta understand we are talking averages here. I said that right up front. I knew everyone who had an emotional reason to disagree would ignore that word, but let me say it once more. It's all about averages.
You go to a TEDtalks and ask a show of hands and you will see an overwhelming number of progressives, atheists or agnostics. Serious majority, like 99% majority. If anyone here can show me a conservative religious counterpart that can be that objective please do. I would love that. And I have looked. All I see are politically motivated think tanks with the opinion of their funders regardless of the data. By making a few simple omissions it's very easy to make data represent falsehoods. Of course we have the ability to find out whether data is missing or not thanks to epidemiologists taking on pharma-studies. It's not really that hard either. Again, GoogleCode is great for that.
Thanx for the resume though, but you need to know nobody was trying to say that if you believe in god you aren't smart. For a 180 IQ I would think you would recognize that I would recognize that and therefore there's no need to be defensive....... at all.
And you were defensive. Can't deny that. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to list academic achievements.
I was really hoping to have an open dialogue about that.
Why can't we just talk about it like friends? SJ is good about that, but he is in the minority on the creationist side on this site when it comes to that stuff.
How old are you SJ? Do you work an go to school or do you go to school full time?
Last edited by Syn7; 03-06-2012 at 08:41 PM.
NIII
Hey man I never said that believers believe because they are less intelligent.
All we are looking at here are averages derived from statistics, nothing more.
Last edited by Syn7; 03-06-2012 at 08:46 PM.
NIII
And what social and political systems are you referring to? Drop names, data.
Registered User
I don't care whether you are an atheist or not. It doesn't matter to me in the least. I was being satirical.
You set yourself up for it with your qualifying preamble. If you can't catch the connection then that is a reflection of your level of blindness and lack of sense of humor.
Progressives make the rules for what is a high IQ or not. They control just about all levels of education. They determine what is considered smart and what is not. Also, most higher education is nothing more than indoctrination into the progressive agenda.
Those who question the status quo are socially slapped down. Anyone with a modicum of education and ability to independently think understands that social/psychological studies can be manipulated to say anything the tester wants it to say.
There have also been studies that state that religious people are smart and informed and well-adjusted. If you live your life and form your opinions based upon what a social scientist has determined in a study, you are exercising your right to foolishness. Go for it!!!
Registered User
The progressive movement has its basis in fascism, a political and social structure that is just to the right of communism. Both these social/political systems are pronounced failures in practice!
Many people are under the mistaken impression that fascism is from the political right, these are people that have been conditioned by an educational system that has manipulated them and these people have never questioned their social conditioning.
Stalin is the one who labeled fascism as politically right. And he is correct, it is to the right of communism, but it is to the way left of conservatism.
If you choose to investigate for yourself, the foundations of progressivism began in the early 1900's and became fascism. They were racist against blacks and the underclasses, and believed in limiting their ability to reproduce, thus eliminating these "useless" people from society. This was the foundation of planned parenthood in America. Early progressives were fans of Hitler and Mussolini!
They are fanatical about controlling others and forcing their flawed ideal society onto others. They are no different than radical religious people who wish to do the same thing.
Smart people who are educated and with high IQ's would shun this form of social and political tyranny!!!
Therefore, anyone who has conformed to the progressive agenda and thinks they have a high IQ and/or have a higher level of education that somehow makes them better equipped to make decisions for others have only demonstrated themselves to have been manipulated by a system that has conditioned them to be blind followers. They perhaps have the potential to be smart, but they have not made use of their opportunities/abilities to their own advantage or to the advantage of society in general.
Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 03-06-2012 at 09:34 PM.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
I was tested at the University of Toronto, At York and Ryerson ( I went to all 3 at one point) and it ranged from 169 to 182.180 is like insane smart. 140 is mensa smart. You are technically a genius at that point. Hawking is like 177. Einstien was like 160. Gates is 160. Whareas M Ali and Andy warhol both had IQ's around 80. Where were you tested??? It wasn't an online one was it? And what was it, Stanford-Binet or Cattell or what? Cause that does matter, they aren't all the same and some are more accurate than others. Some do a better job at seperating environmental factors and stuff like that.
You knwo what they say about stats...About the results, you gotta understand we are talking averages here. I said that right up front. I knew everyone who had an emotional reason to disagree would ignore that word, but let me say it once more. It's all about averages.
Sometimes certain groups attract certain people and that can "skew" the percentages...You go to a TEDtalks and ask a show of hands and you will see an overwhelming number of progressives, atheists or agnostics. Serious majority, like 99% majority. If anyone here can show me a conservative religious counterpart that can be that objective please do. I would love that. And I have looked. All I see are politically motivated think tanks with the opinion of their funders regardless of the data. By making a few simple omissions it's very easy to make data represent falsehoods. Of course we have the ability to find out whether data is missing or not thanks to epidemiologists taking on pharma-studies. It's not really that hard either. Again, GoogleCode is great for that.
Of course I got defensive, if someone said that the majority of MA are less inteligent than soccer players I would get defensive too, wouldn't you?Thanx for the resume though, but you need to know nobody was trying to say that if you believe in god you aren't smart. For a 180 IQ I would think you would recognize that I would recognize that and therefore there's no need to be defensive....... at all.
And you were defensive. Can't deny that. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to list academic achievements.
I was really hoping to have an open dialogue about that.
I think that politics and religion tend to drive people into "rights and wrongs" as opposed to "different" and that's because of how much those view can effect our day-to-day lives and that they can truly effect our freedoms, so we get quite passionate about them.Why can't we just talk about it like friends? SJ is good about that, but he is in the minority on the creationist side on this site when it comes to that stuff.
Gonna be 43, run my own business ( Fabrication of pressure vessels and pressure piping systems for steam and petro-chemical), married for the last 12 years, 2 girls 8 and 4 and doing my Bach in Theology via online course.How old are you SJ? Do you work an go to school or do you go to school full time?
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
There was a writer, goes by the name of Vox Day, he wrote a book called the "Irrational atheist" in which is basically showed that the stats and views used by the "new atheists" were incorrect and did that by using ACTUAL stats, with links to them of course.
It's been awhile since I read it but I am pretty sure it addresses what you mention ( but don't hold me to that).
I suggest you get it as it is an interesting read, even if you don't agree with the religious POV he has or his rather arrogant mode at times.
Do you have a link to those stats by the way?
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
RE in regards to evidence/proof:
I don't know if one can ever PROVE God or what kind of evidence is enough for any given individual so I think that the best starting point is always:
What evidence would make you ( the skeptic) believe in God ( at this stage the notion of God is the point, not WHICH God in specific).
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Banned Li Fut
So, even if there WAS a god, who says this god has a kid that we nailed to a post, and who says this god told anyone anything?
The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
~ Mark Twain
Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
~ Joe Lewis
A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
~ Author unknown
"You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"
"Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Or who is to say the contrary?
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
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