Hung Gar without Iron wire set?

[hajimesaito]

Hajimesaito:

The reason why Tit Sin Kuen is considered an advance set to the majority of the Hung practitioners is that this set will train the internal energy and body methods for these practitioners.

As some of the members here have mentioned any other chi gung set can achieve this as well.

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Hi Southern Fist,

I agree that Iron Wire set is extremely important internal set which completely enhances that potential of a Hung Gar fighter compared to when he only practices Hung style without Iron Wire set.

However, dont you agree that before Iron Wire was added Hung Gar fist was already quite reputed due to the skills of many Hung Gar fighters?

In that case, I believe IW set acts as an attenuation factor that multiplies the skills developed through other curriculum many times over, while also introducing more subtle internal aspects to the fighter?

[lance]

Historically the Iron wire was introduced into Hung Gar by Wong Fei Hung who learned it from Tit kuen Sam (or his student). So why is Iron Wire set considered so important for Hung Gar nowadays? So much so that it is considered an advanced set which characterizes Hung Gar.

What was the original "advanced set" of Hung Gar which made early Hung Gar practitioners famous? Does practicing Tiger-Crane set really possess all the essence of Hung Gar over which sets like Iron wire just do "cosmetic additions"?

The iron thread set is an internal form , the sounds you make is what arouses certain internal organs in your body . But you need a qualified HG sifu to learn the form . Because if you use to much internal power as you make those sounds , then theres' a possibility that you can damage any of your internal organs . HG without the iron thread set will just be a regular kung fu system . But what I would do is do the iron thread form like you are doing chi kung . Just breath regularly , and relax do the set like you ' re doing chi kung . Because , when
you ' re practicing the ma bu or horse stance , below our navel or dan tien is an energy pool , so the strength begins to circulate from your foot throughout your entire body . The thing with chi kung training is that it makes your arms heavy , but when you make contact with people , they can really feel your power .
Because the chi goes throughout your body when you ' re relaxed not tense . Then try it out , go and push and shove someone , and see how they react . It takes time to get results .

[Dragonzbane76]

I love fantasy land its such a nice place to visit this time of year.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I haven't learned the Iron Wire set yet, but from what I've heard from my seniors it is one of the most powerful internal force training sets in Kung fu, and that it was developed from the force training in the "triple stretch set", also called the "Great majestic set" that Hoong Hei Khoon and the Venerable Sam Tuck practiced.

Not to mention chi kung/force training in the form of Zhan Zhuang, set practice, internal and external gong training, etc etc etc.

It is a real shame most people practice Iron Wire as an isometric exercise these days.

Isokinetic, not isometric.
And context and development is everything.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I love fantasy land its such a nice place to visit this time of year.

If this comment is directed to the "sounds and internal" thing of the poster above you, you need to realize that many times we are victims of the cultural trappings of our arts.
The "internal language" that most MA get exposed to is just that.
In regards to the different sounds we make during the IW:
It's been shown that different sound vibrations cause different biochemical reactions, not only because of the "mood" they put us in but because of the actual vibrations running through our bodies ( the "oomm" of yogis and meditation is another example).
Don't ever let the "internal language" of an art mislead you into thinking that there isn't a biomechanical reason behind things.

[Frost]

I love fantasy land its such a nice place to visit this time of year.

always amazes me that the few (and i mean few) hung gar fighting clips out there tend to show the long arm stuff for the most part and not the close range power techniques old frame hung gar is know for and the close range power iron wire is meant to build....... (puts cat amongst the pigeons and runs off)

[David Jamieson]

Hung Fist can be used in pretty much all ranges but one.
It has no wrestling to speak of.

Not that it's a big stretch to learn a few tools in that as well anyway.
You can fight long or clinch with it. It depends on where you are comfortable.

If you adapt it for sport, it will be the same as all the rest really with a couple of small differences that people probably wouldn't notice much without actually understanding what they are looking at.

For instance, we hear quite often "It just looks like kickboxing", but does it really?

Observe stepping and you see training marks, observe entrance strategy and you see other hallmarks.

I think that people who say a style "looks like kickboxing" is missing understanding on the dynamics of a real fight and also the expression of the training when employed in that fashion.

For instance, a well trained Hung kuen practitioner will not lift his heel off the ground in kicking or driving forward striking, but will do so when using twisting or spiraling gings.

I think most people aren't aware of what they are looking at in a refined sense when this observation gets sung to loudly.

Lifting is good for raw core strength develop. raw strength and refined strength or functional strength are two different things/ Someone can be very strong in lifting and just crap at structure for delivering a solid punch. This happens and is the same fantasy of having power as the guy doing only sets thinks he has.

It's all gotta work together in making the big chalupa.

[Dragonzbane76]

I was not directing the comment about the form. I know the form myself and enjoy the tension and breathing as part of the form. My comment is directed at the spin " some people" put on very logic things to make it come off in a mystic manner. Hence the post above my earlier one.

[sanjuro_ronin]

always amazes me that the few (and i mean few) hung gar fighting clips out there tend to show the long arm stuff for the most part and not the close range power techniques old frame hung gar is know for and the close range power iron wire is meant to build....... (puts cat amongst the pigeons and runs off)

Well, one can argue that the long arm stuff is easier to pull off and spot, so...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was not directing the comment about the form. I know the form myself and enjoy the tension and breathing as part of the form. My comment is directed at the spin " some people" put on very logic things to make it come off in a mystic manner. Hence the post above my earlier one.

Again, cultural trappings.
Simply that.
Some forget that the power that HK is know for in some circles comes from the gungs and specialized equipment training which is then "finished and polished" by the IW.

[Frost]

Well, one can argue that the long arm stuff is easier to pull off and spot, so...

One could also argue the long arm stuff is more practical and useful, thats why its easier to use and was adopted into the style....

Only joking just wish there was more HG out there for us to see and judge, always liked doing it myself

[sanjuro_ronin]

One could also argue the long arm stuff is more practical and useful, thats why its easier to use and was adopted into the style....

Only joking just wish there was more HG out there for us to see and judge, always liked doing it myself

What attracted me to HK fro the very beginning was that I could always feel the power in what I was doing, it was simple, basic and effective AND with the potential to be so much more ( That and the movie Executioners from Shaolin).
I've been exposed to 3 different types of HK and their core is basically the same.
I've seen people of all body types excel at HK too.

[Pork Chop]

Hung Fist can be used in pretty much all ranges but one.
It has no wrestling to speak of.

Are you talking ground grappling? Because it most definitely has take downs.

[PM]

Some forget that the power that HK is know for in some circles comes from the gungs and specialized equipment training which is then "finished and polished" by the IW.

exactly, EXACTLY!

[lance]

I was not directing the comment about the form. I know the form myself and enjoy the tension and breathing as part of the form. My comment is directed at the spin " some people" put on very logic things to make it come off in a mystic manner. Hence the post above my earlier one.

Dragonzbane , are you talking about my thread ? You mentioned the thread above you ' re earlier one .