Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kwaichang]

Glad to see some of you are still at it, I hope all are well and training hard Traditional or not. Well it seems Bawang does not feel we are honoring the Shaolin name. What else is new. So I pose a question, is it better to train "traditional" and belittle others for what they do or to Train with the right spirit what ever you do and praise and accept others as Martial Artists with qualities and abilities ? Which is more traditional? also what of wing chun isnt its History questionable yet it is considered Traditional although very new in a MA sense. KC

[bodhi warrior]

Ok...I know this is probably reaching a bit, but here it goes. GM sin told a story about how he and a collegue came upon a guy beating everybody in town in public matches. Neither sin nor his friend could beat him. This opponent was a master of internal kung fu and fat. After getting beaten sin studied bagua from the internal master. What are the odds this master was legendary bagua master Wang shu Jin?

[David Jamieson]

Originally Posted by bodhi warrior

Ok...I know this is probably reaching a bit, but here it goes. GM sin told a story about how he and a collegue came upon a guy beating everybody in town in public matches. Neither sin nor his friend could beat him. This opponent was a master of internal kung fu and fat. After getting beaten sin studied bagua from the internal master. What are the odds this master was legendary bagua master Wang shu Jin?

I don't know, what do his current disciples say? was sin one of their classmates?

[bodhi warrior]

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

I don't know, what do his current disciples say? was sin one of their classmates?

I've emailed some people but haven't got a response yet. Sin The would have been a teenager at the time. And from what I heard didn't stay with the internal long because Ie got mad.

[OldandUsed]

This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?

[Old Noob]

Originally Posted by OldandUsed

This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?

There was a poster on Bullshido who claimed to be the attorney who was going to do GMT's deposition in that case. He said he'd post a video or the transcript and never did. The filings in the case, which are public, are available from several online sources but you have to pay for them.

[OldandUsed]

Went over there and looked at the post, and the attached documents. I have to admit that it was enlightening and I was surprised at most of the information.

[Yao Sing]

Not even a link?

You really gonna make us go to Crapshido for the info?

[bodhi warrior]

Go to bullshido. They got a huge banner graphic on the investigation of shaolin do. Read sin the's deposition. He admits it under oath he made up the majority of what he teaches. And then claims he didn't tell people he made up the forms because he didn't want to be boastful! I'm now wondering if there could be a class action lawsuit against him for theft by deception?

[bodhi warrior]

http://www.bullshido.org/Sin_The

this is a summary of the deposition. click on the full court document. it's 46 pages long. but very interesting reading.

[tattooedmonk]

Originally Posted by OldandUsed

This may be stirring things up a bit, but has anyone heard of a recent lawsuit between SKT and Jacob Rydberg? It was filed in the United States District Court, Central District of California?

I know, right?

[Judge Pen]

I just read the entire deposition and the order on the Barry Van Over case here in Knoxville. Very enlightening. High points; most all of the material from white through first brown was invented by Sin The after he came to America. He admitted that he has invented 37 or 40 more forms since then. No mention as to what forms these are. He maintains that most of the material he teaches is traditional kung fu taught to him by Master Ie. He directly answers some other questions such as denying that Master Ie was his grandfather and that he only remembers 300 some forms, but at one time knew 900.

[Yao Sing]

I still say people put way too much into choreography. But then they should not have been passed off as something they're not.

Anyone (with sufficient training) can put together exercises, line drills, 2-man drills, forms, etc. Bottom line would be, are the moves themselves legit and/or traditional?

[Judge Pen]

Originally Posted by Yao Sing

I still say people put way too much into choreography. But then they should not have been passed off as something they're not.

Anyone (with sufficient training) can put together exercises, line drills, 2-man drills, forms, etc. Bottom line would be, are the moves themselves legit and/or traditional?

I agree. Because of the legalities, Sin The had to be careful how he said it. He was adamant that his teacher taught him traditional shaolin-kung fu, but since you can't copywrite traditional movement, he had to say the forms he created were not traditional. This was the same argument he made years ago in Tennessee. In fact he had Master Garry Mullins demonstrate the difference between the traditional and non-traditional moves.

[bodhi warrior]

Originally Posted by Judge Pen

I agree. Because of the legalities, Sin The had to be careful how he said it. He was adamant that his teacher taught him traditional shaolin-kung fu, but since you can't copywrite traditional movement, he had to say the forms he created were not traditional. This was the same argument he made years ago in Tennessee. In fact he had Master Garry Mullins demonstrate the difference between the traditional and non-traditional moves.

I was thinking today. Was he lying when he said he created the forms just so he could win the copy write case. If he remembered 300 forms then why create more?
How did Mullins demonstrate the difference between traditional and non-traditional?
And if Sin The made up most of the material we know, then what did he learn from Ie?