The Linguistics Thread so You Don't Ruin My Other Thread Thread

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

Wait seriously though, this has always bugged me. How is the "The'" in "Sin The'" pronounced?

Is it just like "teh"?

I assume the accent after the "e" is so people don't pronounce it like the English word "the."

I always said "sin teh" when I saw it written. I assumed the "h" after the "t" was because it wasn't like a standard English "T" but was aspirated or tensed or something.

I don't think Chinese has the soft "th" sound (ð) so I'm pretty sure it's not pronounced "the."

[omarthefish]

I don't think Chinese has the soft "th" sound (ð) so I'm pretty sure it's not pronounced "the."

I always thought of the ð as the hard "th" sound. It's the one that looks like a theta that is soft.

But regardless of whether it's the vocalized "th" or the non vocalized theta looking sound, not only do neither exist in Chinese, Chinese speakers struggle to pronounce them.

[David Jamieson]

h is silent, e is accented to an a so, pronounced "Tay".

anyway, forms are constructed with purpose and an eye towards flow and logic in structure.

all forms were constructed. Or "made up" if you will. It is a lot different than pretending.

all combat moves are learned through the structural formation and understanding of them. Once the good construct is found, it s repeated until it is second nature (hopefully). This is what drills, forms etc are about. And yes, people go about them in different ways.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

I always thought of the ð as the hard "th" sound. It's the one that looks like a theta that is soft.

ð is soft "th" like in "the."

Þ is hard "th" like in "thing."

Those letters are found in Icelandic (and pronounced that way), but in English they are both written as "th".

I think English and Icelandic are the only Germanic languages that still have a "th" sound. German has a "th" cluster sometimes but the "h" is not pronounced.

Greek has theta, like you mentioned, but I don't know if it's a hard or soft "th" sound.

Some other languages have "th" sounds but they're in different families (Hindi, etc.).

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

I made up a small practice drill / form for my childrens curriculum. Am I fruadulently representing my system?

If you lie and say they're 1,000 year old secret Shaolin forms, yes.

[omarthefish]

ð is soft "th" like in "the."

Þ is hard "th" like in "thing."

Those letters are found in Icelandic (and pronounced that way), but in English they are both written as "th".

Here's the thing...

"hard" and "soft" are meaningless terms in this context. They only have whatever subjective meaning you have given them in your own imagination. As Wenshu's Wikipedia link alludes, the terms you are looking for are the one's I used in the previous post, "voiced" and "unvoiced". Those terms can be defined clearly rather than relying on a subjective "feeling" about the sounds.

Similarly, with regard to vague language relating to phoenetics:

I think English and Icelandic are the only Germanic languages that still have a "th" sound. German has a "th" cluster sometimes but the "h" is not pronounced.

I can only guess what you mean by a "cluster" from your context. It looks like you are referring to a cluster of letters but that, again, is pretty meaningless when we were just talking about Chinese since Chinese doesn't have letters. If we are talking about θ or ð, neither one of them are clusters in any sort of linguistic sense. They are single sounds. Chinese speakers tend to have trouble with consonant clusters but "th" does not qualify as such.

Either way, Sin "The" (don't know how to type that little accent mark) is a really goofy attempt at a made up Chinese name. I was thinking maybe for some sort of southern dialect, you know, down in Yunan or something close to Viet Nam but "Sin" is problematic too. Final consonants are pretty **** rare in Chinese. You get the occasional "m" or "n" at the end but I can't think of any examples anywhere in Chinese or characters that both start and end with consonants. I suspect that it's true of southern dialects as well.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

Here's the thing...

"hard" and "soft" are meaningless terms in this context. They only have whatever subjective meaning you have given them in your own imagination. As Wenshu's Wikipedia link alludes, the terms you are looking for are the one's I used in the previous post, "voiced" and "unvoiced". Those terms can be defined clearly rather than relying on a subjective "feeling" about the sounds.

I meant "hard" and "soft" as they are described in English, about English. Probably should've said unvoiced and voiced.

Similarly, with regard to vague language relating to phoenetics:

I can only guess what you mean by a "cluster" from your context. It looks like you are referring to a cluster of letters but that, again, is pretty meaningless when we were just talking about Chinese since Chinese doesn't have letters. If we are talking about θ or ð, neither one of them are clusters in any sort of linguistic sense. They are single sounds. Chinese speakers tend to have trouble with consonant clusters but "th" does not qualify as such.

My bad. I think "cluster" is used to described a grouping/syllable in Korean. Or at least I heard that once. I just meant "th" appearing together in German is still pronounced as a "t."

Either way, Sin "The" (don't know how to type that little accent mark) is a really goofy attempt at a made up Chinese name. I was thinking maybe for some sort of southern dialect, you know, down in Yunan or something close to Viet Nam but "Sin" is problematic too. Final consonants are pretty **** rare in Chinese. You get the occasional "m" or "n" at the end but I can't think of any examples anywhere in Chinese or characters that both start and end with consonants. I suspect that it's true of southern dialects as well.

Cantonese has a lot of words that end in consonants (glottal stops), doesn't it? I don't really know anything about any of the Chinese dialects.

lol @ made up names. He should hang out with Ashida Kim.

Is this the guy in question?



Is that a serious picture? He looks like he's losing his balance.

[omarthefish]

My bad. I think "cluster" is used to described a grouping/syllable in Korean. Or at least I heard that once. I just meant "th" appearing together in German is still pronounced as a "t."

That's not a cluster...this is a cluster:

sixthly   [/sɪksθli/]

4 distinct consonant sounds in a row.

Or

fifths /fɪfθs/

Those ones are *******s for my Chines students to pronounce. Right up there with "usually" /yuʒuəli/

[David Jamieson]

How are they doing with "Cornwall"?

[omarthefish]

Just tested it on my wife.....lol

Side splitting laughter. Yep. Consonant clusters are a biotch for native Chinese speakers.

She got pretty close on here 4th or 5th try.

p.s.

I just went back to her to explain what I was laughing about and she (an English major actually) reminded me of her old, ancient enemy: Bourgeoise

I have spent many an evening in side splitting laughter trying to coach her on how to pronounce that word.

[Yao Sing]

Just tested it on my wife.....lol

Side splitting laughter. Yep. Consonant clusters are a biotch for native Chinese speakers.

She got pretty close on here 4th or 5th try.

Reminds me of the Youtube videos "persians (or germans) cant say squirrel".

[JamesC]

I just went back to her to explain what I was laughing about and she (an English major actually) reminded me of her old, ancient enemy: Bourgeoise

I have spent many an evening in side splitting laughter trying to coach her on how to pronounce that word.

Dude, I don't even know how to pronounce that word

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

Bore-zhwah

"zh" as in Zsa Zsa Gabor's first name. English doesn't really have a letter for it.

Or as the "si" in "fusion."

What is that, like a voiced "sh"?

[JamesC]

Wait...is that even an English word? Sounds French.

[Lucas]

In sociology and in political science, the noun bourgeoisie (/bʊərʒwɑːˈziː/) (French pronunciation : [ˈbuʁʒwazi]) and the adjective bourgeois are terms that describe a historical range of socio-economic classes. In the Western world, between the late 18th century and the present, the bourgeoisie are a social class "characterized by their ownership of capital, and their related culture".[1] Therefore, a member of the bourgeoisie is a bourgeois and a capitalist; in Marxist philosophy, and in contemporary academic and sociological theory, the term bourgeoisie also denotes "the ruling class" of a capitalist society.