Sin The' admits in court he made it all up.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Calling a fraud and a lie a fraud and a lie is not judging, it's state a fact.
If someone admits that they made something up and passed it off as something that it wasn't ie: NOT made up, then that is fraud and an admittance of lying.

[Judge Pen]

Some of the most judgmental people I've ever met anywhere have been Christians right here.

You're right there. But they should know better.

[Judge Pen]

Calling a fraud and a lie a fraud and a lie is not judging, it's state a fact.
If someone admits that they made something up and passed it off as something that it wasn't ie: NOT made up, then that is fraud and an admittance of lying.

I wasn't talking about what Sin The did. Facts are facts. Bawang and I were having a discussion about his opinion that I was desecrating shaolin and Chan Buddhism because I trained in SD in the past and how I feel that the techniques had valid martial value even though they are not authentic shaolin kung fu forms.

[Orion Paximus]

I hate this thread with my life

[kwaichang]

Ultimately it is a personal thing but the morals and right and wrong of that person is different for all, It has been said that Sin The used his lies for self gain and that is true. No one was hurt due to them unless they originally wanted the REAL Shaolin Kung Fu. Others gained what they gained , fitness , health , endurance and respect . Yes respect for the Shaolin Temple in China. I have always respected Chinese MA and wanted to learn Shaolin Kung Fu. Still do SD hasnt changed that. I love Martial arts. and always will. SD cant change that. Many who have heard of the Shaolin Monastery would not have , had they not done or seen SD. So those that are offended need to look at it , in my opinion in a less personal way. If you are offended ask why , did it hurt your business or help it? Probably helped it if it wasnt real. You dont care that someone studied an art that isnt what it claims to be. No skin off your nose right.? So any way you look at it only those that did it and did not get what they wanted are the ones that are hurt. Its like that with any product Right? any way KC

[taai gihk yahn]

look - the guy has misrepresented himself, brokering on the "mystique" of Shaolin to help sell his product; he played up the "esoteric Asian" schtick in order to get people to think they were doing something special and unique - all his claims of being "the only" this or that all fed this directly; and he invents this ridiculous, unverifiable story to support the fiction;

then he basically makes up the forms - not just the one he admitted to: clearly all the forms are made up by him (except the ones he just took out of books, of course);

and the organization is basically functioning out of a cult-like mentality - cult-of-personality and all that;

you can say all u want about the fighting skills u may hav acquired - but let's be honest - the majority of people sign up for SD in order to get the Shaolin piece, including the "secret" fighting skills - no one is joining just to get "good basics" - they are there for the secret decoder ring material;

the whole thing is a scam, and if u got something that you feel is valuable from it, good for you, but fundamentally, by ur own admission, the main reason you joined has been shown to be untrue (and that is what people hav been stating here for years);

spin it all u want; it's still "fraud salad" (to quote our portly Canadian Taoist member...)

[kwaichang]

look - the guy has misrepresented himself, brokering on the "mystique" of Shaolin to help sell his product; he played up the "esoteric Asian" schtick in order to get people to think they were doing something special and unique - all his claims of being "the only" this or that all fed this directly; and he invents this ridiculous, unverifiable story to support the fiction;

then he basically makes up the forms - not just the one he admitted to: clearly all the forms are made up by him (except the ones he just took out of books, of course);

and the organization is basically functioning out of a cult-like mentality - cult-of-personality and all that;

you can say all u want about the fighting skills u may hav acquired - but let's be honest - the majority of people sign up for SD in order to get the Shaolin piece, including the "secret" fighting skills - no one is joining just to get "good basics" - they are there for the secret decoder ring material;

the whole thing is a scam, and if u got something that you feel is valuable from it, good for you, but fundamentally, by ur own admission, the main reason you joined has been shown to be untrue (and that is what people hav been stating here for years);

spin it all u want; it's still "fraud salad" (to quote our portly Canadian Taoist member...)

Yes U ARE RIGHT but being the optimist I am trying to make Lemonade out of Lemons and want to try to see something positive out of all this. KC

[Judge Pen]

That's exactly how I would describe you KC. Optomist.

[bawang]

his opinion that I was desecrating shaolin and Chan Buddhism because I trained in SD in the past

you trained sd in the past and try to justify it.. you said despite the lie you had a great time. a happy time.

Yes U ARE RIGHT

thats all i wanted to hear. you may go now.

[kwaichang]

I said TAAI was right not You Bawang ? LOL so when you can tell me how u really feel U may leave with me LOL KC

[Judge Pen]

you trained sd in the past and try to justify it.. you said despite the lie you had a great time. a happy time.

I also enjoyed playing football in high school even though my team was not all that good. Is that the same thing as ****ing on Lombardi's grave?

[bawang]

I also enjoyed playing football in high school even though my team was not all that good. Is that the same thing as ****ing on Lombardi's grave?

if your football coach pressured everyone to take steroids, and raped some players like that guy on the news, then yes.

[Judge Pen]

if your football coach pressured everyone to take steroids, and raped some players like that guy on the news, then yes.

You should change your name to hyperbole.

[bawang]

how is this hyperbole? sin the mentally and spiritually molested you and took away your manhood. FACT.

[Judge Pen]

how is this hyperbole? sin the mentally and spiritually molested you and took away your manhood. FACT.

Nope. But thanks for making outrageous comparisons as it actually weakens the credibility of your arguments. One only has power over you if you allow them to. If I cared about SD's origins, or tried to make a living teaching the art, then your argument would have some creadence. I trained. I learned how to apply what I learned and was comporable to people of legitimate arts of the same training. I enjoyed my time and got out of it what I put into it. I left on my own terms and not because of a lawsuit or controversy.