WC is totally effective, if you let it to be.

[Ali. R]

What youre saying is, in comparison to most athletic activities (particularly the ones you participate as a child),

You're right.

And what you may learn as a child could easily take you through high school in which easily prepares you for collage, or just some street fights and who knows; maybe pro.

I started in the 6th grade and won my 8th grade Wrestling Championship, I was just as young as these guys when I started and my uncle was the high school wrestling coach as well.

http://youtu.be/iF4T3hWa2bY

[GlennR]

You're right.

And what you may learn as a child could easily take you through high school in which easily prepares you for collage, or just some street fights and who knows; maybe pro.

I started in the 6th grade and won my 8th grade Wrestling Championship, I was just as young as these guys when I started and my uncle was the high school wrestling coach as well.

http://youtu.be/iF4T3hWa2bY

So what youre saying is that all those "ingrained" movements from youth will hinder utilising WC naturally (in a sparring/fighting) situation..... therefore dont spar for a given period.

What periods of time are you thinking?

[Ali. R]

If you train seriously and learn more than just the forms, put truly understand and master their development. If you’re bright,talented and hungry ; and with a good teacher it could take up to two years, but a lot of people are lazy and want to be down by association.

Therefore I would recommend 3-5 years, something more (if you want to be good), it's really up to the student and his/her capabilities and their understanding of development.

[GlennR]

If you train seriously and learn more than just the forms, put truly understand and master their development. If you’re bright,talented and hungry ; and with a good teacher it could take up to two years, but a lot of people are lazy and want to be down by association.

Therefore I would recommend 3-5 years, something more (if you want to be good), it's really up to the student and his/her capabilities and their understanding of development.

Thanks.
I actually agree with introducing sparring to early to WC.... to a degree.

But... how often do we see the 3-5 y WC guy get owned in sparring?

[anerlich]

Your reply is like saying: I can’t train wing chun this week, because my karate gi is dirty.

WTF? I don't see how.

I’m sure it’s not on me

Opinions vary!

And I waited a whole day for this reply.

Someone needs to get himself a life.

‘Greco Roman Wrestling’ is a High School sport that won a UFC Championship (Brock Lesener/others) many, many times.

No sh!t, but WTF does that have to do with anything I said or your argument, whatever it has morphed into this half hour?

[sanjuro_ronin]

You are spot on.

IMO BJJ in particular is a very interesting example. This art is absolutely changing at lightning speed and evolving due to competition and use of video/youtube for instruction and competition footage. Nobody knew what a berimbolo was 5 yrs ago - it took Rafa Mendes winning with it for it to become popular (fun to check out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHikSZK5jc4).

It's funny you mention that because I recall speaking with a few old school BJJ guys, how they said that sport BJJ ( grappling only) would be an ever changing thing because the development will be going through the roof since they don't have to deal with strikes ( as the old school BJJ did since BJJ was oriented towards vale tudo).

[Frost]

is this the same Ali R who claimed to be running a golden gloves gym and have a 36 year coaching record but couldnt prove it and who psoted some of the worest pad work ever known to man? If so it explains a lot about how this thread is going

[anerlich]

It's funny you mention that because I recall speaking with a few old school BJJ guys, how they said that sport BJJ ( grappling only) would be an ever changing thing because the development will be going through the roof since they don't have to deal with strikes ( as the old school BJJ did since BJJ was oriented towards vale tudo).

Some truth to that, I guess, but then again one of my BJJ classmates retained his Australian MMA title belt by submitting his opponent with a gogoplata in the second round.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Some truth to that, I guess, but then again one of my BJJ classmates retained his Australian MMA title belt by submitting his opponent with a gogoplata in the second round.

Good for him, surprise is something no one can plan for and that is really why innovation drives the submission game.
If you can bring something different to the table, you got an ace up your sleeve.

[Ali. R]

Why can’t you stay with your premise (not sure if you have one), you’re not running for election so why play politics?

You said:

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, in particular, is designed to take advantage of common natural reactions to the untrained person finding himself under threat in unfamiliar positions.

Then I said:

‘Greco Roman Wrestling’ is a High School sport that won a UFC Championship (Brock Lesnar/Mark Coleman/others) many, many times.
Come on,

Then you said:

WTF?No sh!t, but WTF does that have to do with anything I said or your argument, whatever it has morphed into this half hour?

Sounds like someone didn’t take their ‘Ritalin’ today, here’s a answer to your question. You’re making the charge that the things that children do or did, don’t help them develop a understanding naturally into good practitioners. And that’s a bald face lie.

If that’s not the case, for the third time; what did you mean by this?

Oh sure, I recognised the spinunder omoplata from Z guard the first time I saw it.

Referring to this post:

A lot of the movements/muscle memories from childhood activities can cross right over/ in being a knowledgeable supplement of understanding for aggressiveness and mental awareness which can easily make him/her stand out from the others, in most cases; when it comes to almost anything physical in their later years as an adult.

[Ali. R]

is this the same Ali R who claimed to be running a golden gloves gym and have a 36 year coaching record but couldnt prove it and who psoted some of the worest pad work ever known to man? If so it explains a lot about how this thread is going

How is this thread going? I haven’t violated anything or anyone. The only ones that feel that way are a hand full of people here. I get this all the time when I come here, it’s nothing new. Here’s the first one on this thread, I dont won't to fight, but just only stay with the premise (like always). I'm surprised I haven’t been banned yet. No offense to the moderators a bunch of good guys.

Sorry to jump into a thread, but I'm bored at work and just noticed this one was throbbing with activity!! Good or bad activity? Well...

And he was totally off subject, just as you are.

Just look at this thread very clearly and carefully; I haven’t attacked anyone that stayed with the premises or who didn’t try to slam me first.

Then, here you are going after my character. I’m a boxing coach and this subject is not about my life. By the way, here is one of my fighters and I would love for you to help me understand what I need to do with my pad work friend http://youtu.be/OFvX8PmMBRM

[Wayfaring]

How is this thread going? I haven’t violated anything or anyone. The only ones that feel that way are a hand full of people here. I get this all the time when I come here, it’s nothing new. Here’s the first one on this thread, I dont won't to fight, but just only stay with the premise (like always). I'm surprised I haven’t been banned yet. No offense to the moderators a bunch of good guys.

It's all good Ali. Good to see you back on here posting. I remember I used to have to pop me up some popcorn listening to you and Phil go back and forth back in the day. The mods aren't doing much banning or censoring lately - and most of the discussions are pretty well contained. I still haven't found another forum that's very active where a lot of people from various WCK styles post.

Then, here you are going after my character. I’m a boxing coach and this subject is not about my life. By the way, here is one of my fighters and I would love for you to help me understand what I need to do with my pad work friend http://youtu.be/OFvX8PmMBRM

Oh, pad work is pretty infinite in what you can do / develop. Those sequences look like speed development mostly. Your guy looks pretty balanced and all right there. With the lightweights I'm sure power development is real necessary - and thus perfect technique. Picking one or two punches in a sequence to work on thowing with max power is good. Also next footwork and angles are always good - they pay off the most in the ring. But no criticism at all. More WCK people should do pad work.

[Ali. R]

It's all good Ali. Good to see you back on here posting. I remember I used to have to pop me up some popcorn listening to you and Phil go back and forth back in the day. The mods aren't doing much banning or censoring lately - and most of the discussions are pretty well contained. I still haven't found another forum that's very active where a lot of people from various WCK styles post.

Oh, pad work is pretty infinite in what you can do / develop. Those sequences look like speed development mostly. Your guy looks pretty balanced and all right there. With the lightweights I'm sure power development is real necessary - and thus perfect technique. Picking one or two punches in a sequence to work on thowing with max power is good. Also next footwork and angles are always good - they pay off the most in the ring. But no criticism at all. More WCK people should do pad work.

Hi man, it’s nice to talk with you again. Phil and I made friends a long time ago; that’s real old news. We’ve written to each other sometimes and talk about life and health, Phil’s a nice guy when you get to know him. Life is to short, we must move on and live in peace, because I’m getting old and just don’t like or want that type of energy in my life.

And thanks a lot for the kind word,

[anerlich]

You’re making the charge that the things that children do or did, don’t help them develop a understanding naturally into good practitioners. And that’s a bald face lie.

That was the charge you made about Wing Chun, how your childhood experiences didn't help you with it at all. Bald face [sic] lie? If you say so.

What you said I said is actually an opinion, so calling it a lie is inappropriate.

If that’s not the case, for the third time; what did you mean by this?

Obviously it was a flippant remark, perhaps in response to an overly lecturing tone, but led into my assertion that the basic things children or the untrained do or did will not take you through to advanced levels of grappling, disputing your earlier point that as a child you see and feel all the basic energies you need to succeed later on. I didn't say that about pugilism, Wing Chun or anything else, only about grappling, indeed only about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

I'm not an expert on developmental learning in early childhood, and, obviously, neither are you, so we're both theorising from bases of limited knowledge.

Is that OK, or should I try a fourth time, perhaps using words of one syllable? Actually, no. I've made my point, which others have responded to positively.

Sounds like someone didn’t take their ‘Ritalin’ today

I wouldn't consider humour as a career if I were you.

[Ali. R]

Then you really had nothing to say; because you said nothing.

I'm not an expert on developmental learning in early childhood, and, obviously, neither are you, so we're both theorising from bases of limited knowledge.

See right there, you really don’t know me! I’ve been a physical education teacher for 7 years for the City ‘Oak Park, Detroit and Romulus School's in the State of Michigan, I know what I’m talking about, unlike you, I have a degree in child development and electronics, and I had four children of my own in which they we’re my students at that time.

I’m sure every room you walk into, this sound comes from nowhere; like your own personal theme song.
http://youtu.be/CWFiZ7q5UmM

When your emotions are heightening with an unknown reason of anger, it’s really hard to debate a lie. Because; if, what brought you to this debate is based on hatred; your heart will not be into it -or- will the premise.

Could someone please help me figure out what he’s saying pertaining to my post or premise, he said some people here really understand the connection?