Alan Orr Wing Chun Question's 7 - Angles and Pressure

[sanjuro_ronin]

and some things can only be learned through experience, and without that experience other things will never be learned ...case in point this thread

Well, experience is the best teacher, IF a person understands the lesson.

[Wayfaring]

This is why in almost all my posts, I strongly want to bring "opponent" into the discussion. To me "solo" is for "health" only.

My pet peeve is these one step punch and response videos. I can literally feel myself getting stupider every time I watch one.

[Robinhood]

You kind of missed the point.
A teacher is the guy that points the way, YOU still need to do the walking.

Yes, and when you don't have a pointer of the way, you will wander looking for the way, so when do you stop listening to the pointer of the way ?

!. When you don't have a teacher.

2. When you don't know you dont know.


3. When your stupid and can't learn.



Cheers

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, and when you don't have a pointer of the way, you will wander looking for the way, so when do you stop listening to the pointer of the way ?

!. When you don't have a teacher.

2. When you don't know you dont know.


3. When your stupid and can't learn.



Cheers

The best teachers are those that, when their students arrive at the end, they say," I did this myself".

[Robinhood]

The best teachers are those that, when their students arrive at the end, they say," I did this myself".

What end ?, when the teacher has nothing he can teach you?,

That's when you need to find new teacher, or stay at teachers level.



Cheers

[sanjuro_ronin]

What end ?, when the teacher has nothing he can teach you?,

That's when you need to find new teacher, or stay at teachers level.



Cheers

*shakes head*
No.
You are expecting your teacher to teach you without you learning.
Not gonna work, he can hold your hand only for so long, eventually you will have to "swim" by yourself AND in deep water.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't know why anyone needs a trainer or a coach, they just need to do it more, ...

By using this approach, you will keep using the skill that work for you. You won't be able to develop any "new" skills. You will need your coach to teach you new skills.

[Robinhood]

*shakes head*
No.
You are expecting your teacher to teach you without you learning.
Not gonna work, he can hold your hand only for so long, eventually you will have to "swim" by yourself AND in deep water.

Your missing the point, yes you need to practice, I am not saying that, you need to learn things that will allow you to progress to learn more.

If you think you know it all already, then you need to practice more til you realize you don't know it all, or find someone that can show you that you don't know it all .

Cheers

[sanjuro_ronin]

Your missing the point, yes you need to practice, I am not saying that, you need to learn things that will allow you to progress to learn more.

If you think you know it all already, then you need to practice more til you realize you don't know it all, or find someone that can show you that you don't know it all .

Cheers

And you are missing the point that you DO HAVE to get in the water and swim and the only way you will ever be a master swimmer, is by swimming.
And NO coach can do it for you and every GOOD coach will eventually throw you in the water and walk away because you will never learn if all you want to do is be taught.

[k gledhill]

And you are missing the point that you DO HAVE to get in the water and swim and the only way you will ever be a master swimmer, is by swimming.
And NO coach can do it for you and every GOOD coach will eventually throw you in the water and walk away because you will never learn if all you want to do is be taught.

"How many combat drops have you made sir ? "
"Err, ahhh, 23....simulated, no, er, actual combat drops. "
" ...you're kidding ?"
" This will be my first.....but I have done a lot of sticky rolling ."

[Happy Tiger]

Wing Chuns scientific process needs participants of all strips to continue forward. In science there are many types of continuing research and testing coordinated together to get ever more complete pictures of all aspects our reality even the most reliable of them let alone super sciences like QM and such. The study and practice of violence has so many faucets, sharing and mutual respect to all who specialise in one or two areas is a good idea. We need scholars, technicians, artists,phylosophists, pugilists, historians and gladiators working together and reporting their findings to the hive for the common and individual good: The hive being the community of VT. One problem we have is the martial arts habit of 'followings', inheritors, lineages etc. I'm not against these things per sie but it's a slippery slope to a break down in scientific continuity, which is why we don't much come off university following the Dr. Fred lineage of surgery or Professor Link method of natural biology. Where in science these 'followings' do occur you usually have trouble after they have had their day (Darwinism, Freudism, Einstienism etc.) Chinese martial arts is linked closely to medicine and TCM as well as shear life and death combat. Folded with phylosophy and even religion to try and make sense of our dedication to blood and fight even as we cherish and protect life. Like science itself like it or not IMO martial arts/science is tied to things we have incomplete knowlege and understanding of. To me the only sin would be to say it's already totally known so why share. The X factor of combat itself has mistified warrior tactitions fighters and phylosophers since the start. And the artistic aspects are even more curious and amazing. Maybe I'm being overly romantic but the main difference I see between most martial artists now and say 300 years ago is totallity of potential. Those old guys did it all to the extreme. Extreme internal awareness and development. Commitment to scholarly persutes and the 7 arts. Hard training. Total realism and constant testing and fighting in life or death contests and war. Religious fervor.Commitment to community (either dark or light or both) There are still such incredibles but not to many in this bomb from above or 10 kilometres away combat age.

[GlennR]

With that kind of logic, I guess we don't need to learn any art, we already know everything already, lets just wrestle more.

I don't know why anyone needs a trainer or a coach, they just need to do it more, this is just rich.


Cheers

Its coming from someone that has learnt his art but realises the only true way to improve is test it

[JPinAZ]

We need scholars, technicians, artists,phylosophists, pugilists, historians and gladiators working together and reporting their findings to the hive for the common and individual good: The hive being the community of VT.

I'm not sure what your point is - why do you feel we need this again? No offence intended, but wasn't this already done when WCK was being created 100's of years ago?

Unless you are implying the information is lost or incomplete and/or needs reverse engineering because understanding has been lost? That could be true for some, but I'm sure there are many here and elsewhere that don't see thier WCK as incomplete or lacking (myself included). While I would agree it is good to cross talk and share both on forums like this and in person, I'm just not seeing your point on the rest.

[Alan Orr]

This has nothing to do with that old krap. It is your clip you posted up of your CLS WC that I commented on and your methods specifically. I speak only for myself, so stop the cop-out of the 'us vs. them', it's old.



No, you were talking SPECIFICALLY about Robert's CSL WC being made up by him back then. You even went on to explain it. But like you said then, BFD - I agree. If you like it and it works for you, great - you're being overly touchy. My point is, because it works for you doesn't mean you've got the answer that can save us all from the lousy wc you see all over the place



Good, so why are you bringing it all up again?



Agreed.

My whole point was, at the end of your post I quoted you said "I am trying to get people to think, test and check. That way wing chun will rise back up. to where it should be."

My point was, who appointed you master-of-all that can some and save us and 'get it to rise back up where it should be'?
My view was, I see some stuff in your clips that violate some very basic WCK principles, and I pointed them out. And when I say this, I am talking about the universal WCK system (if talking about principles, there is only one) - not 'my style' as you put it.

Again, if 'your style' works for you, great, but IMO you're on a path of where 'WCK system' shouldn't be in some cases. So, maybe you should just take off the WC savior cape and stop trying to be our super hero - we don't need it as bad as you seem to think, or give yourself credit for . 'specially by looking at some of the things you advocate doing on your clips (like thinking you can only control your opponent by giving up all space and structure with your body-on-body man love - that violates the most basic of WCK system principles).

I have had great feedback from my clips, as many like our understanding of wing chun. How you tell me its right or wrong? Holding someone away from you in a demo application does not mean it will work with a real opponent. CSL is tried and tested so we are sharing our feedback not yours. You are welcome to share clips which show live training and feedback from your fighters.

[Robinhood]

And you are missing the point that you DO HAVE to get in the water and swim and the only way you will ever be a master swimmer, is by swimming.
And NO coach can do it for you and every GOOD coach will eventually throw you in the water and walk away because you will never learn if all you want to do is be taught.

Who is trying to swim , we interact with real people not external objects.

Practicing involves real people not external resistance, if you want to use water or resistance then you don't need a teacher.

If you think everything is strength, power and speed, then you don't need teacher either.


Cheers