Please explain on what is key to advoid the latter stiffness from occuring?
Originally Posted by Ali. R
Wing Chun Fighter
Please explain on what is key to advoid the latter stiffness from occuring?
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
That's fine, so we half-agree on what jut sau is..
I say that because it seems to me like you are calling 2 very different actions the same technique (one is jut sau and one is laap sau I say you are incorrectly labeling as also being jut sau). What is your definition of laap sau, and how does it differ from jut sau?
Also to get into the real meat of things and away from 'technique' thinking, what WCK concepts or ideas are behind each one and what makes the 2 technques different? For me, things like gate theory, facing, leverage points, contact points, box theories etc come to mind, but I'm curious what in WCK dictates the usages of the 2 different techniques for you?
Oh my.. IMO you would do yourself a BIG favor by distancing yourself from that 'clown'. I wouldn't view call of anything stan does in his clips as 'wing chun'. First clue is he's bridging with jut sau in the first place, and far the correct proper range the tool typically operates in. heck, he's even bridging outside of bridging range! Ahhh, not worth talking about any more really..
Last edited by JPinAZ; 10-06-2012 at 03:54 PM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Banned
The first rule of thumb is to master your stance a lot of work but very much worth it to develop a sense of assuredness and confidents (frame of mind) while keeping the hands relaxed, and in some cases limped.
Each block/strikes has its own group or family stemming from the ulna and radius, when one has mastered his or her structural concept within their forms, one should begin to use or develop ‘jing lik’ tendon usage; either with the thumb or pinky side of the arm.
By tucking the thumb (lose tuck) and keeping all of the fingers relaxed one would feel the tendons in play to support forward vector force and the same goes for the pinky, by aligning it up with the forearm and the rest of the finger should stay lose/relaxed as well.
Meaning once the fingers (as a group) comes into play, sensitivity and softness is automatically thrown out the window. This is why the hands are nothing until the moment of impact to maintain and keep the idea of sensitivity and softness when under pressure.
Last edited by Ali. R; 10-06-2012 at 04:55 PM.
Wing Chun Fighter
My Definition of Jut Sao is jerking motion...my definition of lop Sao is pulling motion....
When i pull your hand down subtlely its lop...when i jerk you its jut...
One is soft the other is hard...Yin and Yang if you will.
Too your second question...Techniques are trained and drilled to become natural an flow after awhile...when sparring you dont have time to think about this technique for that...at best you hope your endless drilling programmed your body to react instinctively...but sometimes your body wont do said technique correct or at all....thats why you have a abunance of tools at your disposal...some work better for certain situtations and fighters. But you use the tools as best you can but the main thing is to always be on the offense forever attacking your opponent and forever moving into his space moving forward aggressively...in the midst of moving forward you want to control him by using uprooting techniques, blind sidind and jamming techniques...constinously destroying his structure and balance while landing strikes.
As for facing...you should always be facing so your mass can merge with you...like a snake...when the head moves the tail follows. If you get turned around or off center to where your not facing....a technique like whisking hand can be utilize to regain the center line an recompose your structure...contact points from my experience i assume you mean from the bridge anything else is hit or landed strike...contact points depend on the range or gap...One range is wrist...the other is beyond the elbow where you have the best control for jamming and barring...At the wrist pulling and jerking is best...At the elbow jamming, pushing and barring is best...of course you can use both at any range...for me personally i find when sparring what i mentioned to be the best range against non-wing chun fighters.
Gate theory...Well we break it down early on into techniques best utilize for defending the gates. One theory you disagree with will be the Fak Sau/Bil Sau...the other will be the outside jut sau...anyway...there are others...But basically these are what i use to set up the control. As for the box theory...i go by centerline and gate theory...We train to enter our opponents gates or doors...the doors lead to center line...At any rate...We train to protect or gates and centerline....personally i see Tan Sao, Bong Sau and Pak Sao among others best for protecting the center line from around your lower dan tien. I see Low Gan Sao best for protecting the lower gates....I see Gum sau and Jum sau for protecting the centerline around your middle dan tien...of course you have high techniques of each like bil or bong for the above your upper dan tien. But each technique is train vigourously until you get use to it instinctively defending in that fashion different ranges and levels of attack. But in the same breath as you defend you time your opponent so you can enter and take his centerline and destroy his balance and structure....
That's fine, so we half-agree on what jut sau is..
I say that because it seems to me like you are calling 2 very different actions the same technique (one is jut sau and one is laap sau I say you are incorrectly labeling as also being jut sau). What is your definition of laap sau, and how does it differ from jut sau?
Also to get into the real meat of things and away from 'technique' thinking, what WCK concepts or ideas are behind each one and what makes the 2 technques different? For me, things like gate theory, facing, leverage points, contact points, box theories etc come to mind, but I'm curious what in WCK dictates the usages of the 2 different techniques for you?
Oh my.. IMO you would do yourself a BIG favor by distancing yourself from that 'clown'. I wouldn't view call of anything stan does in his clips as 'wing chun'. First clue is he's bridging with jut sau in the first place
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
To jerk or to pull
That would be the Jut Sao action, followup with striking.
Since you can't differentiate between jut sao and laap sao, let me rewite part of your post, may be then you'll get the idea.
Modified Martial Artist
In JKD, we use jut sao as a jerking motion to clear the line for a hit.
Check out at 1:20 with Lamar Davis.
Glorified TCMAist
if your opponent is too strong to pull with your jut-sao, then you can become soft and control him with fook-sao.
In other words....
wait for it....
Fook him if he can't take a jut."
(remembered somewhat from a Randy Williams vid...many moons ago...)
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
Wing Chun Fighter
i GUESS what im a saying is too far of a forieng concept...Both Jut and Lop Grab...That would be the Jut Sao action, followup with striking.
Since you can't differentiate between jut sao and laap sao, let me rewite part of your post, may be then you'll get the idea.
But the Lop pulls and the Jut jerks or shocks...For instance you can pull someone to the side, pull them down, or pull them into you or simply pull their guard down subtle like...thats lop sau...Most of the time its just to open a door so i can hit or fak..
Jut Sau is basically a distracting, to shock you while i strike you...to make you flinch, resist or stiffen up from the intial shock...most fighters are not use to the jerking motion an it throws them off the first few times you do it to them...allowing you to create an opening...
As for the lop you can use only four fingers or you can use the thumb to hold on if your opponent tries to punch through your lop...But basically the Jut sao is what you need the thumb for...to jerk the opponent hard...of course you can utilze jut sao energy with blade like hand too...not really the fingers persay...
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
Here is the revised version of what you had wrote: "Does your jut sao grab with the thumb to "JERK"Since you can't differentiate between jut sao and laap sao, let me rewrite part of your post, may be then you'll get the idea.... or just "PULL"
Read between the lines my son, or do you know how to read? Oh never mind ... you can't even ...
You are so right ... because you are all in your own little fantasy world.
Wing Chun Fighter
Well my fantasy fu i love sir...lol....
anyway thanks for sharing with me...
Here is the revised version of what you had wrote: "Does your jut sao grab with the thumb to "JERK"
Read between the lines my son, or do you know how to read? Oh never mind ... you can't even ...
You are so right ... because you are all in your own little fantasy world.
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
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