Ginger Fist & Phoenix Eye

[Bacon]

Get the five gallon buckets and fill them more than half way for strength training.

If you are going to slice into the medum with spear hands you want to get two buckets and make a longer bucket as most people have long enough arms that they can hit the bottom of one bucket.

Cut the bottom off one and duct tape it over the other bucket to create a long bucket that will ensure you will not hit your hands on the bottom.

I have done this and jammed my hands and fingers and its no fun at all.

Go slow and remember you are not striking into the medium very much. Slice and push into it using strength. Hold air in your stomach and push through the medium.

Okay. Thanks Dale! If I'm going to start this though I guess I'd better get on it before Christmas taps my funds dry

[Yoshiyahu]

Hitting objects has nothing to do with fighting...hitting makara board or wall bag has nothing to do with fighting...hitting an heavy bag has nothing to do with fighting...

But what does using Jow, push ups on the fingers and other training tools do?

They condition your hand. They make your hands strong enough to actually use the blasted PE or GF!!!

I dont care how good you are at sparring if your Fist is not developed it wont do you any good in bareknuckle fighting...

Everything i showed dealt with development on elementary level...the beginning stages of training the PE along with the wall bag!

I totally agree with this.
While there are some here that feel conditioning the hands the 'old school way' isn't of benifit, I feel it has benifitted me a lot. I've gone thru the traditional methods of striking bags filled with mung beans and heavy packed sand along with dit da jow. Typical strikes trained are palm, finger tips, knife edge, fist, phoenix eye and fingers of the 'dragon claw'. I realize this isn't just phoenix eye specific, but it was and is part of the regiment.
I also have and still do hit trees, walls, sign poles, whatever is near when I can to keep up challenging my hands so-to-speak. I know that sounds goofy, but I can hit solid, less-forgiving objects with a lot more force than I could before I started conditioning my hands which has direct benifits toward fighting.

In the past I trained dragon claw finger pushups until I've reached a point where I can do them with just the thumbs and index fingers. I've tried the phoenix eye fist pushup on a 1" training matt, but haven't put the time in to develop that since I don't train with that fist formation in application as much as I could.

For other general conditioning, I also rarely worn gloves and only occasionally wear wrist wraps when hitting a heavy bag. I've been doing it that way for almost 20 years and have been able to keep most injuries to a minimum while doing so (with only occasional slight wrist sprain or bloody knuckle as punishment ) but that's kinda beyond the scope of the thread.

[JPinAZ]

Hitting objects has nothing to do with fighting...hitting makara board or wall bag has nothing to do with fighting...hitting an heavy bag has nothing to do with fighting...

Same could be said for your deadly sticker striking. But really, what does this have to do with what I said, because I don't have a clue.

But what does using Jow, push ups on the fingers and other training tools do?
They condition your hand. They make your hands strong enough to actually use the blasted PE or GF!!!

wow, mind blowing..... so, what point are you making besides stating the obvious because I don't think anyone here has said differently?

I dont care how good you are at sparring if your Fist is not developed it wont do you any good in bareknuckle fighting...

which is why I go through the process of developing my hands. Again, what's your point?

Everything i showed dealt with development on elementary level...the beginning stages of training the PE along with the wall bag!

And once again I have no clue what your point is, or what you 'showed' besided some silly pictures of commercial training dummies. Nor do I care really, since I wasn't even talking to you in the post you quoted!

Since this is all in reply to something I said (you quoted me), are you agreeing with me, not agreeing with me, or just arguing with yourself again? (Maybe you could try lay off whatever you've been smoking before you start yammering on on forums, because I really have no idea WTF you are trying to say... )

[Yoshiyahu]

basically im agreeing with this post...What i stated with the pictures is how to train or conditioned the PE and GF....Not actually application...When you speak of hitting a moving target you speak of actual application...theres a difference...

A shooter trains and develops his skill by shooting a target with a gun or bow and arrow.

Same could be said for your deadly sticker striking. But really, what does this have to do with what I said, because I don't have a clue.



wow, mind blowing..... so, what point are you making besides stating the obvious because I don't think anyone here has said differently?



which is why I go through the process of developing my hands. Again, what's your point?



And once again I have no clue what your point is, or what you 'showed' besided some silly pictures of commercial training dummies. Nor do I care really, since I wasn't even talking to you in the post you quoted!

Since this is all in reply to something I said (you quoted me), are you agreeing with me, not agreeing with me, or just arguing with yourself again? (Maybe you could try lay off whatever you've been smoking before you start yammering on on forums, because I really have no idea WTF you are trying to say... )

[Yoshiyahu]

If you can hit someone with a Sun Fist...You can hit them with a Phoenix eye fist.
If i can jab you in the throat with my fingers or ridge hand i can jab you in the throat with Ginger Fist!

As for using stickers on non-moving century bob...its basically to get the Pressure point listing engrain into your mind...Quite simple....You practice hitting the same place over and over again...it will be easier for you to hit someone where you want to than someone who has never practiced hitting those spots over and over again...its basic muscle memory and reflex memory...


Getting you use to the zones...So in sparring and with drills you can practice touching the spots on a resistanting opponent!

Are you serious with this? You could do this for 10 years and be no closer in landing those same shots on a live/moving/resisting target then when you started. I'd agree that striking training pads could help toughen up the knuckles/hands, but using stikers for impoving accuracy for hitting 'pressure points' that can be applied to fighting?!?

[JPinAZ]

basically im agreeing with this post...

Fair enough.

What i stated with the pictures is how to train or conditioned the PE and GF....Not actually application...When you speak of hitting a moving target you speak of actual application...theres a difference...

No, that isn't what you said when posting those pictures. What you did say was how these are useful tools (along with stickers) for how you think someone can increase accuracy striking meridians and pressure points.

Solo training by targeting stickers on inanimate objects doesn't improve your accuracy for targeting those same points in a live fight nearly as much as you think. If you actually did this training and then tried it on a resisting opponent you'd know that. But then you also said you don't care if you miss your target 2 or 3 times, so it doesn't really work for you either. Guess it's not 'Greatly upping your A game' as much as you thought huh?

The only way you're going to really up your accuracy for hitting those small targets/points in a fight is by training them in a fight/sparring against moving, resisting opponents with live energy. Solo training is only going toughen your hands and improve some accuracy against inanimate objects - you're not building 'skill' in appying those weapons without a live partner, EVEN IF YOU TYPE IT IN ALL CAPS.

A shooter trains and develops his skill by shooting a target with a gun or bow and arrow.

Same as above applies here. You can be accurate at stationary targets, but still miss 9 out of 10 times against a living target trying to shoot back at you unless you've had a lot of practical LIVE drilling against LIVE moving objects under stressful conditions.

[imperialtaichi]

Same as above applies here. You can be accurate at stationary targets, but still miss 9 out of 10 times against a living target trying to shoot back at you unless you've had a lot of practical LIVE drilling against LIVE moving objects under stressful conditions.

Simple test: try pressing "level 10" on an elevator while your friends pushing you around, and see how easy it is. Not.

[Yoshiyahu]

During a fight you have movement and stillness where the opponent is not moving away or in or out...also you can create stillness by breaking his rhythm or trapping his tools or jamming him...Then you can fire away with accuracy from still targets..


But as for accuracy with stickers...the key is not building accuracy..its builiding muscle memory. its allowing you to remember where abouts the targets are...an how close each one is located to one another on the meridan lines.


As for accuracy..sparring live can increase your accuracy...but along with sparring you need to practice your PE and Ginger fist on a striking target that moves like double end bag...


or a hanging ball that can retract upon impact!

Fair enough.



No, that isn't what you said when posting those pictures. What you did say was how these are useful tools (along with stickers) for how you think someone can increase accuracy striking meridians and pressure points.

Solo training by targeting stickers on inanimate objects doesn't improve your accuracy for targeting those same points in a live fight nearly as much as you think. If you actually did this training and then tried it on a resisting opponent you'd know that. But then you also said you don't care if you miss your target 2 or 3 times, so it doesn't really work for you either. Guess it's not 'Greatly upping your A game' as much as you thought huh?

The only way you're going to really up your accuracy for hitting those small targets/points in a fight is by training them in a fight/sparring against moving, resisting opponents with live energy. Solo training is only going toughen your hands and improve some accuracy against inanimate objects - you're not building 'skill' in appying those weapons without a live partner, EVEN IF YOU TYPE IT IN ALL CAPS.




Same as above applies here. You can be accurate at stationary targets, but still miss 9 out of 10 times against a living target trying to shoot back at you unless you've had a lot of practical LIVE drilling against LIVE moving objects under stressful conditions.

[EternalSpring]

Get yourself a bucket at Lowes or Home Depot and fill it half way with dried beans.

Place the bucket at waist height and then push your hand into the medium slowly and try and press down to the bottom of the bucket holding the PE. Then you can move the PE north, south, east and west for reps. Start with 10 and add a rep a day until you get to 100 reps for each direction.

Change hands and repeat.

Put jow on after as the beans will get stuck to you dermis if you use it before.

Nice, good thing you mentioned the jow part, I def would've kept putting in on beforehand by sheer habit. What kinds of beans should I use? Or, if there are several answers to that, what would be a good starting point for a beginner? I mainly ask because I'm terrified of using the wrong bean and possible having some negative effect on my body.

[Dale Dugas]

The only beans I would not use for training in an open container are soy beans which are poison to men. They are okay to use in bags but having skin contact on them you can absorb their chemicals which are anathema for men.

You can get any kind of bean other than soy and start your training.

You can use jow beforehand. Just remember to rub it in well or you are going to get wet beans that could mold and then you have a stinking bucket of mess.

[wtxs]

But as for accuracy with stickers...the key is not building accuracy..its builiding muscle memory. its allowing you to remember where abouts the targets are...an how close each one is located to one another on the meridan lines.

You must be talking out of your CV1 ... again. how do you equate building muscle memory to remember where about the intended targets are?

Maybe it holds true for you ... you got muscles instead of the normal gray matters for a brain.

[Empty_Cup]

The only beans I would not use for training in an open container are soy beans which are poison to men. They are okay to use in bags but having skin contact on them you can absorb their chemicals which are anathema for men.

...

Do you have any data to support this statement?

Our practitioners have used/are using soybeans as an open medium for decades with no apparent health problems.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do you have any data to support this statement?

Our practitioners have used/are using soybeans as an open medium for decades with no apparent health problems.

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...rink.features7

http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/...gative-effects

[wtxs]

The only beans I would not use for training in an open container are soy beans which are poison to men. They are okay to use in bags but having skin contact on them you can absorb their chemicals which are anathema for men.

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...rink.features7

http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/...gative-effects

Ref the 4th link to soy ... the estrogen level in 3 qts of soy milk everyday is NO way compare to what may leech out from a bucket of dried soy beans, or that matter ... the amount of toxin.

[Dale Dugas]

Using jow which is an alcohol based liniment means you could be leeching soy and its chemicals into your body over time with direct training with soybeans with the alcohol from the liniment acting as a solvent.

Most soybeans are also GMO as well, hence I dont use them for any DIRECT or OPEN training at all.

I would rather err on the side of caution hence I do not use it due to the chemicals being poisonous to men and it being GMO. There are cheaper beans as well that you could use. Many kinds that are neither poisonous to men or GMO.