Yeah, pushing and pulling somebody who is your own size and skill level is great exercise in itself. Thats why farmboys do well. They deal with large animals and have to shovel all that feed and all that. Unlike other forms of repetitive manual labour, farming is quite versatile as far as range of motion is concerned. IMO, anyways.
I used to work with very large horses. It was a great workout. (have at it, bawang)
Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-09-2012 at 07:31 PM.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
Self-cultivation, inner peace, performance are all cool, but I think they only make sense in the context of having learned how to fight first.
There are a host of other skills in gongfu that are useful, but only after fight training. For example, push hands is a cool exercise but a lot of taiji teachers seem to have this notion that first you do taolu, then push hands, then.....*ta-da* at some point years down the road you are ready to learn the fighting. Of course, I imagine some do this to milk students of money, but there are some who really believe this. Fight training and supplementary training go hand in hand.
I once remarked to a fellow forum member in person that a person should learn some Sanda before learning traditional Shaolin. I'm not sure if he understood what I meant, since Sanda and traditional Shaolin are not similar, but giving a student some basic understanding of fighting, distance, power generation, etc before moving to traditional methods gives them context.
In Japan, most koryu people I've talked to suggest something similar...get a black belt in something like judo or kendo and THEN start thinking about the traditional stuff.
If one can go to the woods and uses his upper arm with body rotation to break 1000 tree branches, whenever he graps his opponent's wrist, he can break his opponent's arm.
If you are a city boy, there is no way that you have opportunity to develop such skill.
http://johnswang.com
More opinion -> more argument
Less opinion -> less argument
No opinion -> no argument
The problem with everyones thoughts about mma or bjj is that only see on tv or at the events is the super athletes whom have made it to the top. These elite martial sport athletes are less than 1% of the martial sport population.
99% of all people practice mma or bjj or sc or judo for that matter will never make it as a professional fighter on tv. It is unrealist to think that everyone will reach there level. These guys would have been superstars even if they were San Shou fighters or judo players or Karate fighters. Because of genetics, conditioning, will and superior skill they would have crushed anyone in any style would have chosen to follow.
My statement about anyone can jump into a mma or bjj club and compete with any beginner, intermediate ot even adavnced students still stands. MMA and the like rely on basic punches, kicks, grappling and throwing that ANYONE can do instictively without any training. Not that this non martial arts student is going to clean house with everyone in that club, but more he could hold his own.
I don't know know why many of you hold mma and ufc as the standard level Martial Art. You use mma fighters as the standard to gage everyone by. I don't see mma and ufc fighters as anything other than a Martial Sport. To me... martial sport is a incomplete martial art, only partially preparing the student for the self defense world.
Syn7: I started high school wrestling at the age of 12, collegiate / freestyle wrestling in my teens and Shuai Chiao in my twenties. I have never stopped since, so that make about 38 years of wrestling experience. Hmmmmmmmm, I think I got wrestling under control here.
Sorry wenshu but I stand by my statement. Anyone can walk into your average mma / bjj school and do well against any other average guy his weight or size.
ginosifu
Gino, I have to say you're wrong.
When I trained submission grappling at 170lbs I routinely wiped the floor with big strong guys that came in and tried to use their strength only. Grappling is a chess game.
It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb
im sorry but you are talking out of ignorance and with a bias thats just silly
For the record I judge MMA from the perspective of someone who has trained with both international UFC level fighters and guys fighting local c class comps and who only train twice a week, who has been a sparring partner for both guys getting ready for the UFC and guys going to into their first local comp.
i have over a decade in several different MMA gyms: my main MMA gym just had a team compete in the european naga event in paris and has 7 guys fighting on the next local MMA card and also has two guys going for national amateur titles
i have seen rugby players (both amateur and pro the city the gyms in is the mecca for rugby in the UK) powerlifters, east European OL weight lifters (the city is full of polish and others east europeans who have been doing lifting since they were young and all weight at least 95kg and all on decca lol) and they all come into class and get their backsides handed to them by beginner and mid level students because despite what you seem to think MMA is very technical and what you dont understand on the ground and standing will get you killed by a half decent fighters
So to reiterate in over a decade i have seen 110kg east european guys get there backsides handed to them by guys weighting under 90kg, i saw the coach who weighs all of 70kg knock one of them out for being an idiot in sparring with his mates and i have only seen one guy come in off the street and hold his own in sparring with mid level guys his own weight, and he turned out to be a former under 19 european judo champ, and he still got his bum handed to him by the coach and senior guys
so my question for you is how many local MMA clubs have you taken local meatheads into and watched them beat almost everyone? 1 2 or 5, over how many years did you do this?
I have NOT been to any mma clubs here. I base it on the mma fighters (many have come in the last 10 years) who have come to my school and challenged me or my students (basically they wanted to test their skill).
They all got their mma butts handed to them by my beginner San Shou students. Some of them switched and became my students.
I base it on the fact that I have wrestled for almost 40 years now and over the years I have seen many man with no experience come, put a Shuai Chiao jacket on and keep up most people in the class.
I base it on the fact that I have been a fighter for most my adult life (turning 50 this January). I judge things based on personal experiences. I have fought a cage / ucf style fight. I have many years of San Shou (I understand mma is different than San Shou).
I have been in MA basically since I was 12. I have my opinions about MA have been and will stay the same until someone proves me wrong, physically! I have respect for everyone here and the styles you have chosen to pursue.
Frost: I trust what you saying is all true, but I gotta see it to believe it myself. Actually I need someone to crush me with their mma skills and prove it to myself that they are right. I'm kinda stubborn like that sorry.
ginosifu
so you haven;t seen any meathead actually go into an MMA gym and beat everyone, what you have seen is guys come in and hold there own with your students in chinese wrestling, and your sanda students beat MMA students, not quite the same as meatheads holding their own in a submission wrestling or MMA class wouldnt you agree?
and no need to be sorry we all need to see these things and not trust others words BUT lets say someone does beat you, what does that prove about MMA? you are not a meathead i think we can both agree on that? you are a very well trained martial artist with a strong competition background, hardly the kind of person you are talking about holding their own with MMA guys with no training correct?