In the years that I’ve spent studying and teaching martial arts, I’ve always noticed that both beginners and the naive tend to kick and punch wildly to make up for their poor structure and body mechanics. It's only after practicing and understanding Choy Lay Fut's body mechanics and general fighting strategy (dynamic positioning) that they begin to realize the value of solid hand techniques supported by stable and mobile footwork.

A: It is also only after practising and understanding CLF body mechanics and general fighting strategy that the beginners will begin to realize the value of solid and well placed kicks supported by stable and mobile footwork. So it takes time to be good at what you want to achieve. I am sure all your students know that.

That is why (as both Nospam and I had said), most beginner and inexperienced CLF practitioners take on a "pseudo-kickboxing" stance and execute a fighting strategy hardly similar to what is taught in the CLF curriculum (at least not the curriculum that I was taught and use). That's what I was referring to when I mentioned over-emphasizing kicks and sacrificing structure. This does NOT mean kicks are unimportant and cannot be seamlessly incorporated into our offensive strategy. It’s not that I cannot do a lot of kicks, it’s just that it’s not necessary to.

A: Instead of de-emphasing the importance of kicks why not work more on solid stance coupled with simple basic kicks to encourage the students to do better and at the same time improving their hand techniques. That would give them more confidence to work with their whole body instead of part of them at a time. Soon or later they will know the pain of a fancy or a sloppy kick when done untimely. As you know, we start kicking right from Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Chui and we do them from low stance, that is the basic teaching strategy built into the primary forms. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know we should not over-emphasizing kicks and sacrifice structure, saying it in colour ink would not make any difference to your common sense message. I can say the flip side, "we should not over-emphasizing hitting with the hands and sacrificing structure" (in colour if I know how to do it) to you and make you feel like you know nothing. Playing down the role of kicking early and working mostly with the hands will only give your beginner students a false sense of security. If you know how to do a lot of kicks well, then it is even more important that you should show them how to do them properly early. They know it will take time and they will kick wildly and look like a "psudo-kickboxer" at the beginning but that should not stop them from trying and you from teaching.

As I've stated before, it all just boils down to kick when it's appropriate and don’t kick when it's not appropriate. It just so happens that Choy Lay Fut focuses more on "hand" techniques than kicking, because the "feet" are often involved in the more important task of keeping you standing, stable, and mobile. There’s nothing “high-level” about this concept, just simple common sense.

A: Simple common sense also tells us to hit with our hands when it's appopriate and don't hit when it is not approprate. Do we have to say, "we should not over- emphasizing the importance of the hands" to get the message across? CLF like other TCMA, focuses more on hand techniques for the beginners then move onto other parts of the body when the students want to increase their level of skills. That is where the more advanced teaching comes in and that is what I mean by "higer level". My point is: you don't have to play down kicking at the beginning. If you talk down any part of the body in the beginning, then you will give the student an impression that you do not think highly of that part of the body. If you want them to learn the kicks later, say so. Tell them that we should not over- emphasizing the importance of kicking will give them an impression that it is not so important after all, and that is not true as you said so yourself.

Lots of beginners look to well roundedness to mean being an expert at every game and range, while neglecting the principles and concepts of their own chosen method. I have a pretty good knowledge of leverage (and stand up grappling) from CLF, but I would be lying if I said my ground-fighting arsenal was adequate enough (from CLF alone) to successful play the ground game and submit an experienced ground fighter. However, I never willingly fight by anyone else’s preferred strategy.

A: Through out this debate, I know it is not true but I cannot help but to feel you have a low opinion of beginner students. You may be surprised to know that they would have enough common sense to know that well roundedness does not mean being an expert at every game and range (nor do they want to be such an expert), and that a teacher does not have to be an expert at ground fighting before he can teach them how to play the ground game. They also know it will take time to be good at their chosen method and that you are just a human being like them even though you are their teacher. There is no need to tell them (and us) the bloody obvious in techno colour prints!

In a fight against anyone of any method, I will fight to maintain my own preferred offensive. If I do get taken down, I would utilize what I do know of leverage or any other concept in CLF applicable to get me back on my feet to fight again. If someone kicks me, I’ll use my stance and positioning to nullify their kicks, break their posture, and open them up to my own strikes (be it kicking or punching, depending on the situation).

A: That is wonderful, bravo to you! I just fight to survive any which way I can.

To me, being well rounded means having applicable knowledge and understanding of different approaches and being able to deal with these approaches using our chosen method’s core principles and strategies. It doesn’t mean simply “knowing” how to punch, kick, and grapple.

A: Then teach your students these wonderful core principles and strategies. I am just happy enough to know how to punch, kick and grapple well. That is enough for me (including this debate)!

JosephX