Some observations on TCMA

[RenDaHai]

Winning a fight outside the ring probably relies on using techniques that are effective against a resisting opponent.

See, I'd say it probably relies on resisting the opponents effective techniques.

[RenDaHai]

This and even the "traditional" variations of it


Will NEVER work here

I get ya, I'm not gonna argue for it. But just an aside, quite recently when I was visiting the states I went to a local mma gym to do a wrestling class and went against this highschool wrestler kid. He was good, that was his game. I feinted high then went for an ankle pick and almost got it but he jumped back into this stance (toes up) completely ruined what I was gonna do and out of range for anything else. I thought it was quite cool though, he'd clearly done it before.

[MightyB]

I get ya, I'm not gonna argue for it. But just an aside, quite recently when I was visiting the states I went to a local mma gym to do a wrestling class and went against this highschool wrestler kid. He was good, that was his game. I feinted high then went for an ankle pick and almost got it but he jumped back into this stance (toes up) completely ruined what I was gonna do and out of range for anything else. I thought it was quite cool though, he'd clearly done it before.

I don't want to belittle TCMA, I just ask that people give it a fair shake in that it's meant for something specific and don't ask it to do something it wasn't intended to do martial arts wise.

TCMA has a lot of strengths and the training is beneficial. Just be realistic. It's not MMA in a modern context and it will never be, but that's ok because it's its own thing. I'd like to see us push weapons training and combat more. It's a competitive advantage.

[Bernard]

Criminy People

This and even the "traditional" variations of it


Will NEVER work here

Whaddaya mean?!? Dude's got a sword!!

[RenDaHai]

I don't want to belittle TCMA, I just ask that people give it a fair shake in that it's meant for something specific and don't ask it to do something it wasn't intended to do martial arts wise.

TCMA has a lot of strengths and the training is beneficial. Just be realistic. It's not MMA in a modern context and it will never be, but that's ok because it's its own thing. I'd like to see us push weapons training and combat more. It's a competitive advantage.

I'd love to see a weapons fighting league. But not just sword against sword, stick against stick. Kinda choose your weapon so you can fight sword vs. stick or spear etc.

The problem is the rules, the scoring the armour the weapons material.....

I think it would be awesome though and I think a lot of people would be interested if you could get it all worked out.

[jimbob]

To many people are trying to talk and hypothesize about what is best. Just go fn put on some gloves and go at it and you'll find out real fast what works for you. THAT'S the problem with TCMA. Too much freggin talking.

.

Indeed. I have a hard time imaging a(n) MMA/Sanda/Judo or Boxing forum where pages have been devoted to discussing and analysing what works and what doesn't.

[Lucas]

Modern wushu is not a Chinese combat art. If people want to see tcma in a modern sport fight environment, you need to watch some Chinese mma that have fighters using cma. Its not hard to find, there is this thing called Google......

[jdhowland]

Now that being said, a lot of TCMA training involves leaving punches extended so your training partner can do 10 hit combos on you. That will never happen against a resisting opponent. But in the above scenario, the dude had his arm extended, just sitting out there. He wasn't throwing a punch.
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Whaaat? Not doubting what you've seen, just wondering about the schools. I have never seen tcma train this way. I have seen it in kenpo, karatedo, kajukenbo and its variants, but never in Chinese fighting arts.

[bawang]

Whaaat? Not doubting what you've seen, just wondering about the schools. I have never seen tcma train this way. I have seen it in kenpo, karatedo, kajukenbo and its variants, but never in Chinese fighting arts.

its more common in small towns because a lot of those tcma guys are originally karate guys.

[Jimbo]

Whaaat? Not doubting what you've seen, just wondering about the schools. I have never seen tcma train this way. I have seen it in kenpo, karatedo, kajukenbo and its variants, but never in Chinese fighting arts.

I have to agree. I've personally seen this done in kenpo, kajukenbo, and even tang soo do, but never in any type of CMA.

[YouKnowWho]

Just be realistic.

I just had a 2 hours private lesson with one of my guys this morning. We did 120 "comb hair" drills against jab and cross combo. We then work on how to move in and take opponent down from for both uniform stance and mirror stance.

He told me that he is going to try technique A and technique B in MMA gym this week. I think that's the right attitude. Every week if you just test 2 of your moves, you will soon develop confidence and you will start to accumulate your experience from there.

[EarthDragon]

ironfist

Proper training against resisting opponents will also help you learn what techniques work.

Much of the stuff you learn in TMA (notice I didn't say specifically TCMA) doesn't work, but the only way to learn this is to train against resisting opponents.

It all works great when your training partner leaves his arm extended after a punch that wasn't even going to hit you anyway.

what for instance in TMA doesnt work? you gotta make it work . does an arm bar or kimura work??? yes you make it work.

sedondly who trains their art without resisting opponents? how else do you do application? are you saying that TMA doesnt and MMA does? dont you think this is a sweeping assumption?

[IronFist]

ironfist



what for instance in TMA doesnt work?

What in TMA doesn't work against resisting opponents?



Here's a good article that that pic is from:
http://www.functionalselfdefense.org...arts-dont-work

Almost all Aikido nonsense.

Most slappy hands Wing Chun stuff (I say this as someone who has studied and still likes Wing Chun).



Just about any block that reaches for the attack.

you gotta make it work .

TMA is made up of low percentage moves. They might work sometimes. Sometimes spinning back fists or jumping back kicks have been used successfully in MMA. That doesn't mean they're effective moves.

does an arm bar or kimura work??? yes you make it work.

There is ample evidence that both of those moves work against resisting opponents. Of course you have to make them work.

Sometimes it is appropriate for an arm bar. Sometimes it is appropriate for a kimura. Sometime it is appropriate for a boxing jab. Sometimes it is appropriate for a Muay Thai round kick.

It's pretty much never appropriate for a duck block reverse punch.



"BUT THEY'RE JUST DOING THEM THAT WAY FOR TRAINING!"

If so, that's a horribly inefficient use of training. Not only are you wasting your time, but you're also developing neural pathways that you'll never use in a real fight. So if anything it's making you a worse fighter.

You are completely wasting your time if you train things you will never actually do against a resisting opponent.



The point is that many TMA moves are impossible to "make work" against a resisting opponent. That's why fighting looks more like UFC than TMA.

If you want to be an effective fighter, you need to work from a collection of high percentage moves that are known to work.

sedondly who trains their art without resisting opponents? how else do you do application? are you saying that TMA doesnt and MMA does? dont you think this is a sweeping assumption?

Most TMA schools don't.

Most MMA schools do.

Yes, I am saying that.

Now here is where everyone jumps in and says "I don't know what you're talking about. My TCMA school is all combat. We train against resisting opponents. We have champion NHB fighters who use TCMA techniques etc."

[IronFist]

See, I'd say it probably relies on resisting the opponents effective techniques.

That's really the same thing I said.

The techniques you use to resist need to be effective on a resisting opponent.

[EarthDragon]

Iron
I see your point, yes you can pick apart styles and their weaknesses and yes maybe some techniques are hard if not impossible to pull off however you can say TMA or TCMA doenst work based on a few techniques.

ALL TCMA and TJMA teach you to block, punch, kick this is MA.

however the pics you post are static postures made to show the technique for training purposes you dont just stand there flat footed and move one hand I hope you know that, the body moves as one you square up in fighting stance not the way the static pics show.

1st pic is a simple redirection this is used in all MA moving redirecting an on coming attack,

2nd pic is to sell magazines

3rd pic again redirection though I dont know who trows a punch then a kick without first securing the ground
but I can post pics of the internet that make MMA look unrealistic I don't think the pics are proving your point.
I can post hundreds of TMCA pics that show real life application.