Over emphasis on techniques

[imperialtaichi]

There is no such thing as fair fights when it comes to survival. If you find yourself in a fair fight, you are either in a competition, or your strategies sucked.

In my opinion, survival or a trip to the hospital depends on these factors, in this order:

1. Mindset
2. Opportunity
3. Environment
4. Attribute
5. Techniques

While it is entertaining to argue over what techniques works when or where, and testing it against friends; it is really the least important bit. Yet we tend to over emphasize on techniques, and forgot to pay attention to the other factors.

Since most of us on this forum are honest law abiding citizens, we tend to visualise a fight to be open and fair. Because that's how we normally conduct our affairs. However, the person smashing a glass bottle across your face may not have such honorable courtesy.

You have to honestly ask yourself, is your WC techniques alone ever be good enough to deal with someone twice your size? with weapons? with multiple attackers? jumping out from behind in a poorly lit carpark with a screwdriver in his hand?

I guess, it really doesn't matter what you are training for; as long as one is honest to himself and not delusional about what it is about.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How many times have we seen superiour size and strength and aggressiveness dominate technique?
Enough times to understand that EVERY attribute matters.
You need proper technique to be able to apply your other physical and non-physical attributes BUT without those attributes, what are you trying to apply?

[imperialtaichi]

How many times have we seen superiour size and strength and aggressiveness dominate technique?
Enough times to understand that EVERY attribute matters.
You need proper technique to be able to apply your other physical and non-physical attributes BUT without those attributes, what are you trying to apply?

Sorry SR, I lost you there, perhaps I should define what I meant by point 4 "Attribute": I am more referring to size/strength/agility/conditioning/alertness/habit etc.

I am not saying we don't train techniques. Example: if I got attacked while I am next a beer bottle, I can use KL22 knife techniques quite well with a beer bottle instead of the knife. If I'm next to a bicycle, I'll grab the bicycle as an improvised weapon to swing the attacker. The bicycle will probably work better than the beer bottle; but it would rely more on my attribute than my KL22 techniques.

We are all born with the ability to fight. It's part of our survival evolution. When the adrenalin dump occurs complex techniques are going to fail, as our instinct kicks in. Hence technique wise I like to keep it simple simple simple; high hit rate contact response that happens without thinking.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sorry SR, I lost you there, perhaps I should define what I meant by point 4 "Attribute": I am more referring to size/strength/agility/conditioning/alertness/habit etc.

I am not saying we don't train techniques. Example: if I got attacked while I am next a beer bottle, I can use KL22 knife techniques quite well with a beer bottle instead of the knife. If I'm next to a bicycle, I'll grab the bicycle as an improvised weapon to swing the attacker. The bicycle will probably work better than the beer bottle; but it would rely more on my attribute than my KL22 techniques.

We are all born with the ability to fight. It's part of our survival evolution. When the adrenalin dump occurs complex techniques are going to fail, as our instinct kicks in. Hence technique wise I like to keep it simple simple simple; high hit rate contact response that happens without thinking.

I dig you and agree.
I was just pointing out that attributes and technique go hand-in-hand and we need both, of course.
If we look at sport combat, simply for the sake of verifiable documentation as opposed to anecdotes, we see the consistency of basic core techniques COUPLED with speed, strength, endurance and proper mental attitude.
This is the case over the decades, if not centuries.

[imperialtaichi]

If Mike Tyson challenges me to fight him in a ring (Environment), I will be out of my mind to accept (Mindset). I will decline politely (remove the Opportunity).

I'll probably ask him for an autograph and buy him a beer (Technique).

Haha.

[Wayfaring]

How many times have we seen superiour size and strength and aggressiveness dominate technique?

More than I care to admit. Even to myself. Every time I experience it personally, it is motivating to drill my transitions in technique as well as up my conditioning. Although if I'm in a lot of matches of size, strength, aggressiveness vs. technique, then that kind of takes care of itself....

[Grumblegeezer]

Since most of us on this forum are honest law abiding citizens, we tend to visualise a fight to be open and fair.

I wish I were so compassionate. What I sometimes"visualize" doing to certain people is not exactly "open and fair". No, if I were ever to act on those fantasies, I would have no legal defense. Best not to entertain such thoughts.

But to your point about technique. Yeah we emphasize techniques because we are martial artists. If we really had to use what we know to survive, we would train very differently. And yes, pure, explosive power and aggressiveness often trump technique. Now put all three together, add experience, and you really have something.

[Lee Chiang Po]

A Judge once asked me that since I was skilled at a martial art, why didn't I just restrain a person rather than injure them? My answer to him was that a martial art is sort of like a gun, unloaded it is useless, and unless you shoot someone with it, it will not help you. A martial art is designed to give you some bit of an edge over an opponent, but it will not make you bulletproof. You have to apply your Wing Chun like you mean it each and every time you have to use it or it is simply useless. This is just one reason I never actually sparred using it. Now Jiujitsu is different and you can restrain someone without having to harm them terribly.
An example. I was actually restraining a young man when his buddy kept trying to get in behind me and help him. I explained that I would not fight both of them so I would simply break his friends wrist if he persisted. He would not listen to me so I told his friend, you have your friend to thank for this, and I snapped his wrist. Turns out the other fellow didn't want to fight without his friend and ran away. My point is that if you don't want to fight the guy again, make it where he can not fight. He will get lucky eventually if you don't. You have to have this mindset or you need to get into something else, like golf or knitting.

[FongSung]

From my lineage we have 10 attributes the first four being

一 快 Yat Fai 1 be fast
二 狠 Yee Long 2 be fierce / ruthless
三 毒 Saam Dok 3 be cruel
四 熟 Say Sok 4 be familiar / skilled

[Vajramusti]

A Judge once asked me that since I was skilled at a martial art, why didn't I just restrain a person rather than injure them? My answer to him was that a martial art is sort of like a gun, unloaded it is useless, and unless you shoot someone with it, it will not help you. A martial art is designed to give you some bit of an edge over an opponent, but it will not make you bulletproof. You have to apply your Wing Chun like you mean it each and every time you have to use it or it is simply useless. This is just one reason I never actually sparred using it. Now Jiujitsu is different and you can restrain someone without having to harm them terribly.
An example. I was actually restraining a young man when his buddy kept trying to get in behind me and help him. I explained that I would not fight both of them so I would simply break his friends wrist if he persisted. He would not listen to me so I told his friend, you have your friend to thank for this, and I snapped his wrist. Turns out the other fellow didn't want to fight without his friend and ran away. My point is that if you don't want to fight the guy again, make it where he can not fight. He will get lucky eventually if you don't. You have to have this mindset or you need to get into something else, like golf or knitting.

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Makes much sense

[Happy Tiger]

Techniques really depend on the scope of ones combat needs.As a fighter\grappler in the ring, my use of VT techniques is quite different than say on the street with multiple dangers and sudden violence...and again different in application of professional security protocols .The flexibility of VT is astounding in my experience.

[Vajramusti]

Techniques really depend on the scope of ones combat needs.As a fighter\grappler in the ring, my use of VT techniques is quite different than say on the street with multiple dangers and sudden violence...and again different in application of professional security protocols .The flexibility of VT is astounding in my experience.

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yes
If the wing chun "body unity: and mind set us sufficiently created- the ability to adjust to challenges in different contexts is heightened. The "context"(location, environment.practice, combat etc) can help determine the most appropriate techniques. Wing chun is very versatile -
that's my experience.

[PalmStriker]

My own practice consists of cherry-picked limited technique dedicated to muscle memory. Extra features include weapon throwing and evasion skills such as rope and pole climbing, leaping, tumbling. Quick work/quick exits.

[Vajramusti]

My own practice consists of cherry-picked limited technique dedicated to muscle memory. Extra features include weapon throwing and evasion skills such as rope and pole climbing, leaping, tumbling. Quick work/quick exits.

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I like climbing the wing chun mountain though I learn some things from folks who climb other mountains. Wing chun training can perform many functions.

[anerlich]

Sanford Strong in "Strong on Defense" makes the point that martial skill is one of the least important attributes in surviving violent crime.