WCK and Ground Fighting

[Sihing73]

Wayfaring,

I had to delete something like 8 pages of that thread.
I have merged the original with this thread and left the beginning of that original thread.

If this degrades to another bout of chest thumping and challenges then those who make such challenges will have their accounts locked and banned and ALL of their posts on this board, not just in this thread, deleted.

As always, anyone wishing to discuss this further is welcome to contact me offline via PM or email.

[Wayfaring]

Wayfaring,

I had to delete something like 8 pages of that thread.
I have merged the original with this thread and left the beginning of that original thread.

If this degrades to another bout of chest thumping and challenges then those who make such challenges will have their accounts locked and banned and ALL of their posts on this board, not just in this thread, deleted.

As always, anyone wishing to discuss this further is welcome to contact me offline via PM or email.

Thank you - appreciate it.

[Wayfaring]

Just an open post to the CRCA guys here. I know you guys are circling your wagons because you feel your sifu is under attack.

I just wanted to publicly state that I think that Randy Williams diverting attention from normal topics to deal with the ground game is a good thing. More should do this.

The criticism to WCK sifus doing this is that they are teaching stuff that's not quite up to snuff compared to the specialists. So what? I'd so much rather have them addressing it and improving it incrementally rather than completely avoiding it. If it blows up every time its discussed then they are more likely to avoid it altogether.

[CRCAUSA]

I would agree with that and I appreciate hearing from someone that doesn't have an ax to grind. BJJ is great and no one here denies that. What RW is trying to do is innovate WC techniques into something that will offer some response in those situations. Obviously if we really wanted to learn BJJ instead of WC we would be doing that. Whether you agree with RW or not at least he is trying to advance the art and is making an attempt to keep up with the times. I know some martial artists that are locked into a more traditional system that has not kept up with the times and they are very happy also. That is the great thing about the martial arts. There is something for everyone as long as you are willing to get out there to sweat, train and sometimes get injured pursuing your passion.

[Francisco Silva]

Wise thoughts



Francisco Silva

Wing chun forever

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just an open post to the CRCA guys here. I know you guys are circling your wagons because you feel your sifu is under attack.

I just wanted to publicly state that I think that Randy Williams diverting attention from normal topics to deal with the ground game is a good thing. More should do this.

The criticism to WCK sifus doing this is that they are teaching stuff that's not quite up to snuff compared to the specialists. So what? I'd so much rather have them addressing it and improving it incrementally rather than completely avoiding it. If it blows up every time its discussed then they are more likely to avoid it altogether.

The issue is when the basic core principles of grappling ( in this case) are either disregarded or not done properly in an "instructional".
I am sure that any WC practioner would state the same view when in an instructional they could see the core principles of WC being disregarded or not done properly.

[CarlosCrcaporto]

I agree with Francisco, wise words Warfaring, now you are saying things with no intention to attack anyone, see when we are clear when we want to say the other people can understand what do you mean, in that way I think maybe you agree there is some previus comments just to say bad things and to push down our system, so in that way I agree with what you have said now.

[Wayfaring]

The issue is when the basic core principles of grappling ( in this case) are either disregarded or not done properly in an "instructional".
I am sure that any WC practioner would state the same view when in an instructional they could see the core principles of WC being disregarded or not done properly.

Agreed.

And yet the words of Carlos Machado right now echo pretty loudly to me:

"A man coming into my world needs to see what he can do before he starts to learn what he can't do".

[CRCAUSA]

If one doesn't think his techniques are effective them don't use them. If one prefers a grappling art to a stand up art then by all means do BJJ. I have seen plenty of martial artists practice techniques that for me probably would not have worked well. It doesn't mean however they won't work for someone else in certain circumstances. I guess a lot depends on the person. It is not a reason however to criticize someone for trying to advance their art. I don't criticize them just as I don't criticize others that practice an older more tradional system.

[Wayfaring]

If one doesn't think his techniques are effective them don't use them. If one prefers a grappling art to a stand up art then by all means do BJJ. I have seen plenty of martial artists practice techniques that for me probably would not have worked well. It doesn't mean however they won't work for someone else in certain circumstances. I guess a lot depends on the person. It is not a reason however to criticize someone for trying to advance their art. I don't criticize them just as I don't criticize others that practice an older more tradional system.

And just to clarify, it is a perfectly valid strategy to punch a BJJ guy in the nose to keep him from tying up with you. And if you keep your head on the same level as them, you can stuff their takedown shots too. And then punch them in the nose.

What possibly could be more fulfilling than this?

[WingChunNovice]

I just wanted to publicly state that I think that Randy Williams diverting attention from normal topics to deal with the ground game is a good thing. More should do this...

I fully agree. He has contributed so much to the system, dedicating a big part of his life to it and he works to constantly improve himself, CRCA WC and his students. I have nothing but respect for him and his journey.

/salute
MS

[CarlosCrcaporto]

correctly right Warfaring, the fight situations are all different of each others, every fight is a new one, ok sometimes happens a situation close to another we have in the pass, but after all, they are all different, everything is possible to happen, so in that way I prefer to be prepare for everything and learn like I do instead to be jammed to an old system with 500 years old who works at the time but now needed to be updated to the fighting system of the running days.

[CRCAUSA]

A larger question would be who else out there in WC in actively working on using their WC for ground fighting? By that I don't mean incorporating techniques from other systems into WC but actually trying to use WC on the ground.

[Frost]

A larger question would be who else out there in WC in actively working on using their WC for ground fighting? By that I don't mean incorporating techniques from other systems into WC but actually trying to use WC on the ground.

a better question would be why reinvent the wheel? what randy is doing is showing inferior techniques to what already exists, many of which will get you hurt against someone with 6 months grappling training, why not simply accept ground fighting is not an area wing chun was designed for and move on???

[CarlosCrcaporto]

Well I think I already answer that, all system needed to be updated, and after all the groundfighting in CRCA starts to many years ago, I´m not saying we invent the wheel but we sure helped to improve it.