Lead levels linked to violent crime

[Drake]

Eh... I get ScienceDirect, but the article is just discounted.

There's more than enough data provided for free, though.

[jdhowland]

I don't think the Romans used any pipes they used carved stone to make their water lead into the cities, more or so it's just that you had to be aggressive or be killed in those days. Lead exposure is horribly bad, especially for young children.

You're thinking of the viaduct--stone. But lead pipes have been found from imperial times. Lead based pewter cups, too.

[GoldenBrain]

Google Ben Goldacre Battling bad science. He does a great job of showing the flaws (nutshell) without bogging down those of you who aren't involved in research with details you won't really understand.

The problem is not the references they gave, it's the ones they did not give.

If I do an experiment 100 times and have the luxury of leaving out half the data, I can make my hypothesis look rock solid when in reality it may not be any more valid than the flipside.

Thanks for the reference Syn and you make great points. I just got back from a gun show in Ft Worth so I haven't had much time yet to dive into Mr Goldacres' research but I will give it a good read.

Also thanks to Drake. It's the skeptics like you and Syn that keep us less skeptical folks in check so please keep it up because I do appreciate it.

[RenDaHai]

It seems an oversimplification to me,

Never the less violent crime is convincingly linked to low IQ and Lead to lowering IQ and a thousand other health issues. Seems like it could be one factor (amongst others).

I didn't realise the lead from petrol and paint were so easily transferred to humans though.

[Drake]

At any rate, the heart of the report is that they found an unexpectedly high correlation between violence and lead. This is after a litany of multiple regression analyses and examinations of other IVs.

As with most science, all they can say is that there appears to be a strong probability that the two are linked. Forgot their Cronbachs Alpha, but I believe it passed the confidence test.

[SoCo KungFu]

At any rate, the heart of the report is that they found an unexpectedly high correlation between violence and lead. This is after a litany of multiple regression analyses and examinations of other IVs.

As with most science, all they can say is that there appears to be a strong probability that the two are linked. Forgot their Cronbachs Alpha, but I believe it passed the confidence test.

So I haven't read it yet but it seems the typical deal then I'm assuming? Science publication says, there might be something to this here but needs more study...scientifically illiterate journal writer says A leads to B!

[Drake]

So I haven't read it yet but it seems the typical deal then I'm assuming? Science publication says, there might be something to this here but needs more study...scientifically illiterate journal writer says A leads to B!

Well, in this case they are pretty sure there's a connection.

And there's always room for more studies!

[Raipizo]

Indeed and I like the way you worded that. Some might have seen my comment as adversarial or telling you how to think but I sure didn't mean it that way, which is why I said "I don't think we should..." I believe there is much more research to be done, because I would also like to know exactly how lead affects us. All I'm told by the research is that it does but how is the real question.

To Raipizo,

I'm not trying to pick at you. I'm just trying to stay accurate. If I'm wrong please let me know. For sure they used stone but there is lots of evidence to support them using lead pipes as well as lead pots for use in cooking. I'll paste links to a couple of sites that describe lead uses in Roman culture. One is a wine website discussing the subject and the other is the EPA's website.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/...poisoning.html

http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/perspect/lead.html

I see. I didn't know in the pots etc. Maybe it is why, who knows. But I just don't think they were to the level of plumbing with pipes yet, maybe I'm wrong. I heard that some honey made in china is now under fire for having lead in it.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think the Romans used any pipes they used carved stone to make their water lead into the cities, more or so it's just that you had to be aggressive or be killed in those days. Lead exposure is horribly bad, especially for young children.

Then you would be wrong dear forum member.

It is a well recorded, documented fact and there are numerous examples of same available to be viewed right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_l...pe_inscription

[Syn7]

ba da bump... tsssshhhh.......


David for the win

I didn't know that, but I feel like I should have. I love how heated indoor plumbing predates jesus!


Romans were as successful as they were because they were big on engineering. From roads to formations to weapons. In most ways, their roads were better than ours are now. I can go on for days.... Fascinating stuff.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Co-relation doesn't (always) = causation.
It may be one of many factors.

[David Jamieson]

Co-relation doesn't (always) = causation.
It may be one of many factors.

The effect of lead on the human brain and body when consumed is fairly well documented already.

It's why it's been removed from petroleum products, paints etc etc.
It's also why all your piping is usually copper now and no lead pipe is being produced. It's all slowly being changed out for PVC as far as underground stuff goes.

It's also no longer used in the canning process due to the known hazards of consumption.

In any case, it's known as lead poisoning and it's effects are pretty well known. One can extrapolate what is known and correlate it directly to a given case basically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[bawang]

whatever happen to common sense?

if you watch people getting murdered in a stadium for 150 days of course you would get ornery.