kung fu sparring without kickboxing

[David Jamieson]

First of all, what's wrong with kickboxing?
Why can't kickboxing be the sparring?
Isn't martial arts kickboxing / boxing / wrestling or a combination of those anyway?

do you really fight standing on one leg with your arms in the air waiting for Johnny to try and sweep your leg?

Good kung fu is direct.

The main thing about fighting is the guts to do it. the conditioning to stay in and the last thing is technique.

If you want to see a bunch of posing, then some artful attacking, go watch a movie.

In the meantime, martial arts looks like fighting when it's applied and very little, in fact, I'd say NO fighting in a real sense looks like that which you see in chop sokey flicks.

the principles of attack and defend are the same across the board. A western boxer is gonna knock your teeth out the same way a good kung fu guy can.

[bawang]

Think about how many years the temple has been in peace rather than violence, now I'm not a historian

shaolin monks are traditionally, very, very, very violent, and very crazy. today they do all that peace love meditation sh1t to survive modern times and make money.

[MightyB]

First of all, what's wrong with kickboxing?
Why can't kickboxing be the sparring?
Isn't martial arts kickboxing / boxing / wrestling or a combination of those anyway?

Good kung fu is direct.

The main thing about fighting is the guts to do it. the conditioning to stay in and the last thing is technique.

Nothing wrong with kickboxing, but I'm starting to disagree a little about all fighting looking the same. That's kind've sort've true IMO, but I'm beginning to see some nuances and I don't think a solid traditional fighter will look like kickboxing 100%. By kind've sort've true is that techniques that work are universal, but there's some nuances... por ejemple, from my perspective TCMA should be less bouncy on the approach, you'll probably see less trading shots from a distance (at least should see less), you should see an attempt at redirection and control / trapping, there should be a presence or interplay of yao / gong, and some play at locks. Some hooking on the hands / arms... etc. Lot's of pak choi / chopping to create openings and a few palm techniques. Should be some shin kicking and nut shots thrown in for good measure (not actually connecting on the nut shots, just show that you could do them)... anyway

Just some thoughts.

[bawang]

I have a student who has been with me for 12 years and I haven't taught him any forms yet. I do know more than 50 forms and I did win many 1st places in form competition in the past. I just don't think form is the right way to start your training.

kung fu world needs more heroes like you.

[YouKnowWho]

Consider that Kungfu has been practiced through most of the the temple's history, and you'll see that although it has been used in times of violence, it has mostly been a focus for meditation and health.

You only talk about one part of Kung Fu, and you only talk about "solo" training.

Kung Fu training is good for health but when you are sparring/wrestling with your challenger, I just don't see any "meditation" there. Can you find any meditation in the following 2 clips?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDdI3JLC_t0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hPpd008g1U

[Lucas]

imo a tcma will adapt, and strive to meet regional/local and modern combat necessities.

i think many times people say 'traditional chinese martial arts' when they really mean 'Antiquated', 'dead' or 'stagnant' chinese martial arts. an actual tcma will have cross training and a modern approach to self defense and combat. the traditional aspects that hold up to modern scrutiny will be retained, the unecessary will be eliminated. this of course in regards to combat oriented and focused training martial arts.

No one is going to fair well in a multiple attacker drug induced psycho mosh attack. This is why riot police wear armor, use shields, weapons, and work in teams. No amount of training will see you out of a situation that has you facing off against multiple people who want to due you violence if you choose to stay and fight. Running in that situation is your only option unless you posess superior weaponry and a method of not taking extreme damage to your body. The best method in this case is distance and firepower. Not a very likely scenario.

In regards to general violence that people experience on a regular basis around the world, Chinese martial arts are just as good as any other combat training, if you train with the proper intention and find a school that meets that need.

i think however, we can all agree that finding that school is the first obstacle, and may not always be an option depending on where you are.

[YouKnowWho]

kung fu world needs more heroes like you.

I told my guys, "When you are young, you should go to test your skill against as many people and as many different styles as you can. The day you are too old to do so, I'll teach you forms."

[YouKnowWho]

what's wrong with kickboxing?

Since roundhouse kick is not emphasised in TCMA, the 1st time that I used it in sparring was by accident. Both my opponent and I had right side forward. In the middle of the sparring, my opponent suddently switched his left side forward. My right back leg just swung toward his open chest subcounciously without any order from my brain.

To me, kickboing is the most natural way to fight. You just attack when you see an opening.

[MightyB]

Disregarding fantasy...

Still abdicating the Bruce Lee use whatever works mentality, you guys don't feel a difference between kickboxing and a traditional approach during stand up?

for instance, using a grab with a pak choi to open them up for a straight shot etc. I don't think you see that sort of thing in kickboxing.

[YouKnowWho]

A kickboxers may use his low roundhouse kick to hurt his opponent's leading leg. A TCMA guy may use foot sweep to knock his opponent's leading leg off the ground. The purpose may be different, but it may look similiar.

[MightyB]

A kickboxers may use his low roundhouse kick to hurt his opponent's leading leg. A TCMA guy may use foot sweep to knock his opponent's leading leg off the ground. The purpose may be different, but it may look similiar.

Maybe...

Leading Arm Sweep Kick

Low Round Kick

So Yes, Same result but major difference in execution.

[YouKnowWho]

Maybe...

Leading Arm Sweep Kick

Low Round Kick

So Yes, Same result but major difference in execution.

Both clips show serious commitment. If you just use it to set up something else then you don't need to commit that much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjMrq...ature=youtu.be

[GoldenBrain]

I think kickboxing, or at least the tools used in kickboxing are the basic framework from which all styles build on. Each style has it's own flavor especially after the advanced techniques are fully developed, but all of them should use the basics which could be described as kickboxing.

If the tools of kickboxing aren't used in sparring/fighting then the student isn't fighting naturally or maybe just skipped the basics.

I also feel that the more tools you have the better, but that isn't to say a fighter who only masters the basics can't be great. In most cases the basic kickboxing or ground fighting tools are all that are needed, that is as long as the fighter has fully developed those basics. Probably the most important reason to gather more tools for the toolbox other than to actually use them is simply to be able to understand what they are and to learn how to counter those who do use them.

[MightyB]

Both clips show serious commitment. If you just use it to set up something else then you don't need to commit that much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjMrq...ature=youtu.be

Your clip shows the rounded kick like movement better, but in my mind it's still fundamentally different than a thai round kick... but anyway

One thing I'll say to get back to the thread starter. Something that I've been thinking about lately... It's hard to put into words but - Shaolin, or TCMA cannot be thought of as somehow "different" than other martial arts. You have to approach it like how you'd think a kickboxer or MMAist would approach it if Shaolin was his "bag of tools" to draw from... It's a conceptual thing, but I think mentally people put TCMA on a weird pedestal.

[GoldenBrain]

I think mentally people put TCMA on a weird pedestal.

Nail-head meet hammer!