Some clips and stuff:)

[Jansingsang]

Just think a little reflection is needed to lighten the mood Me ole chunners

http://youtu.be/wx_Teck2B3o

[guy b.]

BJJ was around a long time before anyone decided on a rule set, let alone the current IBJJF rules. you are confusing the tail and the dog.

Vale tudo was the flip side of the BJJ coin in Brazil. Not much of a ruleset there to constrain anybody.

When bjj was much smaller the principles could be enforced effectively in person. It is now too large for this, but the ruleset is based on the original principles still. Are you genuinely denying that the direction of evolution is defined strongly by the competition rules, and that these rules have shaped the character of bjj as it exists today?

Try this thought experiment: bjj rules change tomorrow. Throws onto the back are an instant win. Pinning for 30 seconds is awarded maximum points. Penalties are awarded for pulling guard. Shoulder locks are banned.

How does bjj end up looking?

[Wayfaring]

How does bjj end up looking?

Still better than face dancing?

[guy b.]

Still better than face dancing?

I didn't ask you to try the thought experiment because you have such trouble with thinking

[guy b.]

Seriously try it though, if you can force yourself to remain honest

[Wayfaring]

I didn't ask you to try the thought experiment because you have such trouble with thinking

Even without thinking it's still better than face dancing.

[guy b.]

What a fool you are

[Wayfaring]

When bjj was much smaller the principles could be enforced effectively in person.

OK you wanted thinking. WTF do you mean "the principles could be enforced effectively in person?" What clueless drivel. You sound like Helio used to travel around to schools and rap people on the knuckles for "violating BJJ principles".

It is now too large for this, but the ruleset is based on the original principles still.

Thank you Cap'n Obvious.

Are you genuinely denying that the direction of evolution is defined strongly by the competition rules, and that these rules have shaped the character of bjj as it exists today?

This is only part of the picture. Sure competition rules push an art in a direction. For example, the completely retarded judo rules that are in play currently in international competition.

With BJJ, though, and the UFC, there is a tight connection to grappling without the gi, and in a scenario where strikes are allowed. This, although still a competition with short rounds, is a step more towards self-defense than sport BJJ in the kimono. There is cross-training and cross-competition between BJJ practitioners and MMA fighters.

There is also a strong contingent dedicated to keeping BJJ as a street defense art. That's Rorian's kids - the Gracie Academy. And Relson and line. And many other old school professors.

So basically you are missing 2/3 of the story with your comment, and those other two directions will keep it in check.

Try this thought experiment: bjj rules change tomorrow. Throws onto the back are an instant win. Pinning for 30 seconds is awarded maximum points. Penalties are awarded for pulling guard. Shoulder locks are banned.

How does bjj end up looking?

Like I could still take you down, obtain mount, and end the fight despite what retards are doing to win a particular competition?

Most of the rule changes I'm seeing proposed are like submission only tournaments. Points don't matter, etc. People like things that are more real.

[anerlich]

What a fool you are

I see you don't do logic

[anerlich]

It is now too large for this, but the ruleset is based on the original principles still. Are you genuinely denying that the direction of evolution is defined strongly by the competition rules, and that these rules have shaped the character of bjj as it exists today?

It can't be both "based on the original principles still" and be "defined strongly by the competition rules".

Rules have shaped the character of sport BJJ, but IMO not even close to fundamentally and not to the extent you claim.

I disagree that it's "too large". Instructors can do what they like in their own gyms. Suggesting they're all brainwashed by the IBJJF rules as to what they teach does not match reality.

What Wayfaring and I took most issue with, IMO, is your statement that Telles' game is somehow "devolutionary" because his moves from turtle aren't awarded with points.

You keep harping on on other fixations, but this is the main assertion you haven't justified.

Here's a thought experiment for you: what if reversals from the turtle were granted an instant win? If giving the back gave you 3 points? If causing your opponent to inflate and float away as in Harry Potter - The Prisoner of Azkaban was granted an instant win?

What would BJJ look like then?

[Sean66]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSS7IYSs7WY

[BPWT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSS7IYSs7WY

Thanks for this!

[guy b.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSS7IYSs7WY

"jiu jitsu principles haven't changed since day one"

surprise surprise, lol

[guy b.]

OK you wanted thinking.

At last

Sure competition rules push an art in a direction.

Thank you for acknowledging your mistake

With BJJ, though, and the UFC, there is a tight connection to grappling without the gi, and in a scenario where strikes are allowed. This, although still a competition with short rounds, is a step more towards self-defense than sport BJJ in the kimono. There is cross-training and cross-competition between BJJ practitioners and MMA fighters.

There is also a strong contingent dedicated to keeping BJJ as a street defense art. That's Rorian's kids - the Gracie Academy. And Relson and line. And many other old school professors.

So basically you are missing 2/3 of the story with your comment, and those other two directions will keep it in check.

Lol of course. The principles of bjj are based on using grappling in actual fighting. The rules police these principles, ensuring that sports bjj doesn't become disengaged from the original purpose of bjj as defined by Carlos and Helio. You are repeating my own argument back to me. I take it then that you are convinced and that you will pipe down?

[Wayfaring]

Lol of course. The principles of bjj are based on using grappling in actual fighting. The rules police these principles, ensuring that sports bjj doesn't become disengaged from the original purpose of bjj as defined by Carlos and Helio. You are repeating my own argument back to me. I take it then that you are convinced and that you will pipe down?

First, I'm not convinced by a long stretch that you even know the principles of BJJ. Please highlight your understanding for all of us, including your grappling background and rank.

Next, no you are highly mistaken in the above paragraph. But what else is new among BJJ white belts who don't spar?