Siu Lin tau

[Hendrik]

I have no such a problem , because the Wck I practice accord with all red boat era Wck lineages, item of Chinese official history and ancient Chinese martial art DNA.

You need to ask those who practice such as black flag wing chun if you have a problem such as them

I don't know, please, tell us all, how did that feel when you found this out about your animal style wing chun? Must be frustrating..

[GlennR]

I have no such a problem , because the Wck I practice accord with all red boat era Wck lineages, item of Chinese official history and ancient Chinese martial art DNA.

But heres the thing, who is saying (apart from yourself) that it is official history and DNA as you say?

Apart from a couple of people on this forum, who does???

Im no scientist but isnt there such a thing as peer review...... what people, with varified non-biased credentials back your claims??

And finally, does it work better than the other WC?
Is it better for fighting/self defense?

If so, show us someone that stands out as a skilled exponent of your 1850 art??

I , for one, will take up your method if it appears superior.

[tc101]

What if 30 years later you find out you are not practicing Wck , but something else claim to be wck, but not wck even you think it is Wck all the time?

Is that sad or stupid for the 30 years you argue and thinking you know it all?

Can that happen in the real life?

Sure. It is happening everyday . Both in east and west.
I would pray for many people that they are not one of these people. Otherwise, they will have a big broken heart.

This makes no sense. All you are doing is trying to complicate something that is easy. No one needs to be an expert or authority to just look and see whether something is boxing or Muay Thai or wing chun. They do not need your DNA or some grandmaster or anyone they can tell for themselves.

What if 30 years later you find out you were never practicing boxing but something else that claim to be boxing. Nonsense.

[tc101]

The mechanics are not a supposed to. You don't do it because you are supposed to, you do it because it works for you and that is something completely different.

You keep the elbow down and the alignment along the centerline for a Wing Chun straight punch because you are "supposed to." Do you do it differently? A jab will work, but that's not a Wing Chun straight punch. If you want to do a Wing Chun straight punch, you do it the way you are "supposed to." The "supposed to's" are some of the "distinguishing features" of Wing Chun. Do you do the SLT in the same sequence that your Sifu taught you? You could do it in any order and it would work. But you are "supposed to" do it in the sequence that has been taught.

I may not do it like I am supposed to by your supposed to definition or someone else's definition but I do it in my way because it works for me. The yee jee kim yeung ma is the starting point for your personal exploration or your personal inquiry through training of how to make things work for you not a fixed way of doing something. There is no supposed to.

Do you keep your knees angled inward, your feet slightly pigeon-toed, your pelvis tucked slightly under, and your weight sunk? Those are all "supposed to's." Do you do it differently? It is Ok to stand in a horse stance and call it YGKYM because it "works for you"?


In boxing or bjj you will never hear a instructor say do this or that because you are supposed to or that is how it is supposed to be done. Supposed to is dogma, you do it this way because you are told to.

You're kidding right? So you are saying that a BJJ instructor would never tell a student to do an armbar at a given angle that puts the most pressure on the joint rather than one that doesn't? He wouldn't say "your supposed to do it this way for the best effect and to keep the opponent from escaping"?!!!! So a BJJ instructor would never tell a student doing a rear naked choke to get his forearm under the opponent's chin rather than across his mouth because that's how its "supposed to" work? A boxing instructor would never tell a student to snap his jab out sharper and faster so it is more deceptive and harder to avoid, because that is how a good jab is "supposed to" work?



How can you or Hendrik say the original way if what Hendrik has is the original way is the better way? If what he does is better, let's see him do it better. To say an original way is better is pure speculation. Maybe these things Hendrik things are so important were not lost through neglect maybe they were lost through advancement and were never optimal.

You may very well be right! But I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see differently. After all, our ancestors actually fought battles and back-street brawls with Wing Chun for survival. When was the last time that happened on a regular basis?

I have boxed for years, practiced bjj for years and my coach and instructors never told me to do something because I was supposed to. In other words you don't do something simply because that is how it is done I have always been taught to do something because it works when you do it that way. The techniques of any art are actions that have proven themselves to work. The justification is not you do it because you are supposed to but the justification is this is how you make things work. Even so they are not written in stone because they will need to be adjusted for the individual and people do find ways to tweak or do things better. That is why boxing today is very different from boxing 150 years ago. My point is we do not do something because we are supposed to but because it works.

When your justification is you do it because you are supposed to do it that way you have lost the focus on function and your art becomes dead, it becomes a dogma.

If someone asks me why I punch with my elbow down and in or do this or that my answer is never because you are supposed to.

[Hendrik]

Work better then other Wck? Superior ?
You totally missed my point. Clear your mind and re read my posts.

DNA discussion makes All red boat era Wck off spring better. And I have never said My way is perfect or superior.


I say, all red boat era Wck share the same DNA. And we can identify and track them to details today.

But heres the thing, who is saying (apart from yourself) that it is official history and DNA as you say?

Apart from a couple of people on this forum, who does???

Im no scientist but isnt there such a thing as peer review...... what people, with varified non-biased credentials back your claims??

And finally, does it work better than the other WC?
Is it better for fighting/self defense?

If so, show us someone that stands out as a skilled exponent of your 1850 art??

I , for one, will take up your method if it appears superior.

[Hendrik]

Again, you totally missed my points.

Are you are wcner?
Or a mma discuss with mma logic?

I have boxed for years, practiced bjj for years and my coach and instructors never told me to do something because I was supposed to. In other words you don't do something simply because that is how it is done I have always been taught to do something because it works when you do it that way. The techniques of any art are actions that have proven themselves to work. The justification is not you do it because you are supposed to but the justification is this is how you make things work. Even so they are not written in stone because they will need to be adjusted for the individual and people do find ways to tweak or do things better. That is why boxing today is very different from boxing 150 years ago. My point is we do not do something because we are supposed to but because it works.

When your justification is you do it because you are supposed to do it that way you have lost the focus on function and your art becomes dead, it becomes a dogma.

If someone asks me why I punch with my elbow down and in or do this or that my answer is never because you are supposed to.

[KPM]

In other words you don't do something simply because that is how it is done I have always been taught to do something because it works when you do it that way.

You're just arguing semantics again! You are "supposed to" do it that way because that's the way it works!!!! The arm has to go under the chin in a rear naked choke. It has nothing to do with your individual characteristics. If its going to work, it HAS to be done that way. You can say "supposed to", you can say "because it works"....it amounts to the same thing!

The techniques of any art are actions that have proven themselves to work. The justification is not you do it because you are supposed to but the justification is this is how you make things work.

Exactly! And your Sifu tells you you are "supposed to" do something in such and such a way because he/she knows that that is how to make it work!

That is why boxing today is very different from boxing 150 years ago.

No. Bad analogy. Boxing today is different from boxing 150 years ago because the rules changed.

My point is we do not do something because we are supposed to but because it works.

And my point is that your Sifu/teacher will tell you are are "supposed to" do it because he knows that's how to make it work! Are you going to trust your instructor? You seem to be repeatedly getting way too hung up on the way things are worded. You are holding onto the "letter of the law" rather than seeing the "spirit of the law"...so to speak.

When your justification is you do it because you are supposed to do it that way you have lost the focus on function and your art becomes dead, it becomes a dogma.

No it doesn't. All the student has to say is "ok Sifu, but why am I doing it that way?" If the instructor can't justify why you are doing something a particular way or show you why doing it differently doesn't work as well, then you need to find another instructor because THAT is when things started getting dogmatic.

This makes no sense. All you are doing is trying to complicate something that is easy. No one needs to be an expert or authority to just look and see whether something is boxing or Muay Thai or wing chun. They do not need your DNA or some grandmaster or anyone they can tell for themselves.

But that seems to be where you are missing the point! Maybe its NOT that easy! Maybe there is a deeper level that isn't apparent to Joe Blo who is doing the looking. Did you ever stop to think that the reason you keep missing what we are saying is that you have never seen that deeper level...that level beyond the superficial appearances? But your mind seems to be made up no matter what I say or how I try to explain it. So I think I'm done with this thread.

[anerlich]

What if 30 years later you find out you are not practicing Wck , but something else claim to be wck, but not wck even you think it is Wck all the time?

If it works, why worry? And who, self-appointed WC gurus with their own barrows to push such as yourself, is to judge what is right or wrong, other than by results?

Is that sad or stupid for the 30 years you argue and thinking you know it all?

That describes your behaviour for the last couple of decades, at least, so tell us, how does it feel?

I would pray for many people that they are not one of these people. Otherwise, they will have a big broken heart.

You are a condescending, patronising prat. Take your prayers and shove them up your tan tien the hard way.

[YouKnowWho]

What if 30 years later you find out you are not practicing ...

What if 30 years later you find out that the skill that you have developed can't even handle any 20 years old who knocks on your front door? That will be the worst nightmare for all TCMA lovers - to get knocked out within 10 seconds. I would pray for many people that they are not one of these people.

[GlennR]

Work better then other Wck? Superior ?
You totally missed my point. Clear your mind and re read my posts.

DNA discussion makes All red boat era Wck off spring better. And I have never said My way is perfect or superior.


I say, all red boat era Wck share the same DNA. And we can identify and track them to details today.

Rubbish.
You just said how sad it would be to be doing WC for 30 years and not doing it the 1850 way..... your way

How is that not saying your 1850 way is superior?

So ill ask again, what benefit in regards to fighting/self defense will your 1850 way give me??

Oh, and who in China verifies your research??

[GlennR]

You are a condescending, patronising prat. Take your prayers and shove them up your tan tien the hard way.

Nicely put Andrew...... but he would have to shove it the 1850 way for better penetration

[YouKnowWho]

what benefit in regards to fighting/self defense will your 1850 way give me??

This is the "center" of the whole discussion. Without a clear answer on this question from Hendrik, any more discussions will be meaningless.

[GlennR]

This is the "center" of the whole discussion. Without a clear answer on this question from Hendrik, any futher discussions will be meaningless.

Exactly John

But his caveat will be "i dont fight anymore, im a lover and buddhist....etc etc"

But he will avoid this one key question.

[Hendrik]

John,

The answer is clearly lay in front of your eyes.

But if you can't see it then you are not a wcner who know Wck , even thought you claim to use tan suo....etc.

How meaningful is if I go to sc forum and discuss sc which I am clueless ?

This is the "center" of the whole discussion. Without a clear answer on this question from Hendrik, any more discussions will be meaningless.

[Hendrik]

Your hatred toward me blind you. That is for sure. Hahaha

Rubbish.
You just said how sad it would be to be doing WC for 30 years and not doing it the 1850 way..... your way

How is that not saying your 1850 way is superior?

So ill ask again, what benefit in regards to fighting/self defense will your 1850 way give me??

Oh, and who in China verifies your research??