three basic dna of red boat era wck siu lin tau

[Hendrik]

To answer those who asked me why I don't root and do waving . The following picture will answer your question. There is a part of jin path under the physical body or willow . Which can be linear or spiral as I called it the double helix. Double helix is usual in ck and bj set. But slt has it too in the bong section.

So, why don't I lock my stance , knees, hip...etc as spm? Because I rely on dynamic force flow, instead of fix holding structure which will block my force flow.

That is why in yik kam transform, I show you how to adjust the knees so that the whole body is light weight....etc. YKT develop prerequisite for these type of things which is in the Wck three sets.


Notice. I just say different way of power generation above, in this case I am using force line type. Nothing say about superior, good, bad, best fighter.....etc.

Snt is using this type thus it is not San chun stance or other stance, but the natural parallel stance.

[Hendrik]

Combine the above and this picture you will see more.

[KPM]

Notice how it is second nature for spm to block side way. As in the following clip. Wing chun technics such as tan sau don't do this type of sideward , wing chun second nature is push forward in center line, but not block sideward from center line. That make Wck power generation very different , that is why Wck develop with snt type .

Ok. But SPM does both. It also has plenty of techniques that push forward into the centerline.


As in a coil spring, action and reaction force happen in the same time.

Uhh. No. A spring cannot compress and store energy at the same time it expands and releases energy. They are opposite actions. One is "swallow", the other is "spit." They don't happen at exactly the same time.


Suck and spit in Wck happen in the sometime, as shown in bong sau. That is Lin sil Dai da, cancel and strike in the same instance. As in my bong sau demo in the above clip.

I think it depends on how you use the Bong Sau. To me, the SPM idea of "swallow" means you are bringing something in and either nullifying its momentum or gaining direct control of its motion. Like a Lop Sau. Bong can do this as well. But "spit" means you are sending out force in a short sharp impulse. Lop Sau cannot do this. Bong Sau can do this if you are moving into the opponent and essentially using the Bong like an elbow strike. However, I do not see Bong Sau doing both at the same time! How can Bong "suck" something in and send out force at the same time? It can deflect as it sends out force, but this is not exactly the same thing as the idea of "swallow" and "spit" happening simultaneously.




all is saying it is using the action and reaction force without rigid holding.
wck is a force low art. Instead of structure based art as spm. Ie. bil Jee set. The ultimate of Wck shows that.

Ok Hendrik. I'm trying to stay with you. I've never heard Wing Chun described that way. In the 3 lineages I've worked from a good rooted structure was always emphasized. So this is a very different way of looking at it!


In ygkym, spine never take any force. Spine is fragile. As I have explain in the previous post above on the seven bows .

But it does transmit it down to the legs and floor? Wouldn't this require some level of "rooting"?

From your post, it shows me you are using the spm way as a standard norm. That is a very different compare with wing chun way or Wck engine.

You are probably right! But as you noted, I think I would described as a "TCMA" way and not specifically an "SPM" way. And I don't think I'm alone. All the Wing Chun I have experienced tries to establish a good structure and good root.



Robert agrees with me, most people only learn his structure level article but not the dynamic momentum or force flow level. I have continuous to bug him to write article on that for past three years.

I have not seen Robert or his students use a YGKYM with the center high, no rooting or sinking, the stance very narrow and the body slightly "swaying" in the breeze! Does Robert agree with your YGKYM in that video? Why would Robert have gone on something of a "campaign" some years ago to get Wing Chun people to examine their ability to root and use their structure if he agrees that what you showed in that video is "Ok"? Because from what I understood back then, he was trying to get WC'ers NOT to do that!

Here is some footage of an SPM guy with good root and structure moving his opponent's around pretty easily in a Chi Sau competition. Is hard to tell, but I think a least a couple of his opponent's were WC'ers. He shows good use of "swallow" and "spit" and redirects incoming force well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWoY0...8szh8epGRhGBtA



The body is waving because the body is supposed to wave while it is in deep breathing where the joints and spine moving according to its state. Not locking or holding into any position. The body motion is in a state of coherence, in up down, left right , in out. Six directions.

Ok, but why no root?! Even a willow tree has deep strong roots! How can you receive force and redirect it if it picks you up off of your feet and tosses you aside?


That is an assumption most people will made based on they are used to seeing a holding structure, instead of force path and force flow play , as explain in the following YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAkv...=youtube_gdata -

I did actually watch this one! I promise! SPM also talks about Lik and Ging. SPM also talks about handling force in a "receiving" fashion and a "sending" fashion as in #3 & 4 of your categorization. And why would the use of #3 & 4 preclude or exclude the use of #1 & 2? Shouldn't we be good at using all 4 categories?



If you know Robert as I do and chatting Wck every week , you will know Robert is not as what you think he is.

So Robert has stopped emphasizing a solid rooted structure and teaching his structure tests?


However, taiji or Wck, in order to play with force flow the body needs to be loose and light. Other wise it is not effective to implement flow. Wck is called female art since ancient. One doesn't expect female to root like man.

Why does being rooted exclude being loose and light? And exactly how does a female root?



Notice. I am just describing and presenting the DIFFERENCE technically , nothing to do with who is better or good or bad.

Understood. And I will admit that what you are describing is a very different approach to Wing Chun. One that I am not familiar with and have not seen or felt. Whether it is an improvement on Wing Chun as most people seem to be doing it remains to be seen and proven. I appreciate the fact that you have put so many videos out discussing your ideas. But I and a lot of the others here would really like to see more two-person demonstrations actually showing what you mean and illustrating the results. Otherwise you aren't going to convince very many people that "rooting like a woman" (which really seems to mean having no root), waving the body around like a willow and doing the techniques in SLT like they were Tai Chi movements is something they should be doing!

And just to clarify: I have understood you as saying that red boat era Wing Chun and its descendants:
1. are a low-force art
2. not structure based and does not use tension to hold any kind of structure
3. a female art
4. does not block sideways off the centerline
5. spine never takes any force
6. receives and sends force at the exact same time
7. has the feet parallel rather than "pigeon-toed"

[Hendrik]

Here are some of my opinions.



Ok. But SPM does both. It also has plenty of techniques that push forward into the centerline. -------

Wck does No side way .
Thus , wck is using its unique strategy, momentum, and force handling.






As in a coil spring, action and reaction force happen in the same time.

Uhh. No. A spring cannot compress and store energy at the same time it expands and releases energy. They are opposite actions. One is "swallow", the other is "spit." They don't happen at exactly the same time. ----------


In a coil sprint action and reaction happen in the same time, when you press a spring, action force, the coil spring push back at you, reaction force.




Suck and spit in Wck happen in the sometime, as shown in bong sau. That is Lin sil Dai da, cancel and strike in the same instance. As in my bong sau demo in the above clip.

I think it depends on how you use the Bong Sau. ------

As fok sau which always has forward pressure. bong is also called as bik bong. Bik means pressure. Bong without the forward pressue to the opponent center line is not a bik bong. These are Wck uniqueness .





To me, the SPM idea of "swallow" means you are bringing something in and either nullifying its momentum or gaining direct control of its motion. Like a Lop Sau. ------

Wck idea is center line capture/strike/control and nulify has to happen at the same instance otherwise is one step late..


Different strategy




Bong Sau can do this if you are moving into the opponent and essentially using the Bong like an elbow strike. However, I do not see Bong Sau doing both at the same time! ------

Bong sau is not an elbow strike but a deflect and issue forward pressure in the same instance.

Old timer did those new evolution might do diffent.



How can Bong "suck" something in and send out force at the same time? It can deflect as it sends out force, but this is not exactly the same thing as the idea of "swallow" and "spit" happening simultaneously. ------


The defect means defect the incoming to side and allowing it continuous go forward. That has no different with swallow. It is swallow to the side.

The bong example will be the opponent got redirect and continuous and in the same time a forward pressure send to his center line. That is spit.




all is saying it is using the action and reaction force without rigid holding.
wck is a force low art. Instead of structure based art as spm. Ie. bil Jee set. The ultimate of Wck shows that.

Ok Hendrik. I'm trying to stay with you. I've never heard Wing Chun described that way. In the 3 lineages I've worked from a good rooted structure was always emphasized. So this is a very different way of looking at it! ---------


IMHO ,
This is why in the past , it is say biu Jee set not getting out of the room. Unless one get the force flow, one cannot make biu Jee function effectively.
biu Jee rely on structure is trouble. Because it is not suppose to rely on structure but the inch Jin or force flow.

Biu Jee set is for the third momentum of Wck, the recovery momentum. To recover means one has already lost the center and structure. Those no longer in ones possession already, one needs to recover in that situation.






In ygkym, spine never take any force. Spine is fragile. As I have explain in the previous post above on the seven bows .

But it does transmit it down to the legs and floor? Wouldn't this require some level of "rooting"?


IMHO, it is more a force pair balancing on the run, then rooting as in the southern fist .




From your post, it shows me you are using the spm way as a standard norm. That is a very different compare with wing chun way or Wck engine.

You are probably right! But as you noted, I think I would described as a "TCMA" way and not specifically an "SPM" way. And I don't think I'm alone. All the Wing Chun I have experienced tries to establish a good structure and good root. -------


In fact,
What you describe is in general southern fist with spm taste.
Wck evolve into different directions.





Robert agrees with me, most people only learn his structure level article but not the dynamic momentum or force flow level. I have continuous to bug him to write article on that for past three years.

I have not seen Robert or his students use a YGKYM with the center high, no rooting or sinking, the stance very narrow and the body slightly "swaying" in the breeze! Does Robert agree with your YGKYM in that video? ------


In Robert told those who asked me the same question in a forum months ago , that is the state of the body move by itself.





Why would Robert have gone on something of a "campaign" some years ago to get Wing Chun people to examine their ability to root and use their structure if he agrees that what you showed in that video is "Ok"? -----


Because what he shared decade ago is the basic of using body integration , some wcner at that time is using only arm but no body integration,

and what I show is a step beyond the body structure , time to get into Jin flow and momentum. Where body integration and structure need to turn into dynamic flow.
To be able to flow, one needs dynamic . To learn dynamic one needs to make the structure alive. And no longer hold on to structure.

In Wck, first there is structure as in basic, second step is ck level which learning the moving structure. Then, bj level where one advance into flow.
however, one must go through structure to flow. Otherwise one cannot get to flow.




Because from what I understood back then, he was trying to get WC'ers NOT to do that! --------


There is a different between scatter all over the place and coherence in the six core elements : body, mind, breathing, Qi, force flow, and momentum.

In this case, what I show, (note :no claim here that I am superior) is a resonance or coherence of the above six elements . The body is waving a syncronize to the deep lower abs breathing, the weight transfer, the force flow up and down from and to ground, the physiology is in coherence. It is clock with rhythm .

So it is a resonance, not a scattering move . That is the implement of natural flow in the set solo practice. Or as it says, let go and let it be.



Here is some footage of an SPM guy with good root and structure moving his opponent's around pretty easily in a Chi Sau competition. Is hard to tell, but I think a least a couple of his opponent's were WC'ers. He shows good use of "swallow" and "spit" and redirects incoming force well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWoY0...8szh8epGRhGBtA



Thanks!

Very typical southern fist type of swallow and spit.

[Hendrik]

body is waving because the body is supposed to wave while it is in deep breathing where the joints and spine moving according to its state. Not locking or holding into any position. The body motion is in a state of coherence, in up down, left right , in out. Six directions. [/B]

Ok, but why no root?! Even a willow tree has deep strong roots! How can you receive force and redirect it if it picks you up off of your feet and tosses you aside? -------



I have shown the force flow diagram on the previous posts. It is a force flow play not a rooting play as in general southern fist.

If he is big and strong stick at him like a Willow to strong wind. If you root strong as usual southern fist, he is still pick you up as strong wind uproot trees. Tree doesn't have the sticking option due to its rooting.






That is an assumption most people will made based on they are used to seeing a holding structure, instead of force path and force flow play , as explain in the following YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAkv...=youtube_gdata -

I did actually watch this one! I promise! SPM also talks about Lik and Ging. SPM also talks about handling force in a "receiving" fashion and a "sending" fashion as in #3 & 4 of your categorization. And why would the use of #3 & 4 preclude or exclude the use of #1 & 2? Shouldn't we be good at using all 4 categories? --------


The YouTube says four basic force operation.
The key in this YouTube is can we operate in all four operation.

People talk about Lik and ging. But different people define it differently.

In this clip, here Jin is define and force path nd force flow were present. These are tools. 1 and 2 are not efficient compare with 3 and 4. 3 and 4 needs development to get it.





If you know Robert as I do and chatting Wck every week , you will know Robert is not as what you think he is.

So Robert has stopped emphasizing a solid rooted structure and teaching his structure tests?


Robert always is a dynamic momentum person.
The Robert you see is when he teaches beginners to have a good solid foundation. Wck bottom line is capture the center via dynamic momentum play.



However, taiji or Wck, in order to play with force flow the body needs to be loose and light. Other wise it is not effective to implement flow. Wck is called female art since ancient. One doesn't expect female to root like man.

Why does being rooted exclude being loose and light? And exactly how does a female root?

Rooting as most think or in souhtern fist is not force balancing but holding and sustaining.

Force path and force flow play needs a loose and light body. As in taiji , it says, it is so light that it will not hold an extra weight of a feather. It is a different paradigm .




Notice. I am just describing and presenting the DIFFERENCE technically , nothing to do with who is better or good or bad.

Understood. And I will admit that what you are describing is a very different approach to Wing Chun. One that I am not familiar with and have not seen or felt. Whether it is an improvement on Wing Chun as most people seem to be doing it remains to be seen and proven. I appreciate the fact that you have put so many videos out discussing your ideas. But I and a lot of the others here would really like to see more two-person demonstrations actually showing what you mean and illustrating the results. Otherwise you aren't going to convince very many people that "rooting like a woman" (which really seems to mean having no root), waving the body around like a willow and doing the techniques in SLT like they were Tai Chi movements is something they should be doing! ---------

Sure. Things will happen step by step.
We know today that when the three set system created in 1855. Wck go through a quick fighter training cultural change. We know the post 1855 cut away lots of chinese body of the art develoment and focus into get some one to the battle field quick culture . now 160 years later it has its pro and con.
We now try to present both the pre and post , but things will not happen over night. And some will see it different then their Wck because Wck does evolve. And 160 years is a long time .





And just to clarify: I have understood you as saying that red boat era Wing Chun and its descendants:
1. are a low-force art ----------


It is high effective and efficient force handling art. High impulse and sensing and very adaptive art.



2. not structure based and does not use tension to hold any kind of structure -----

Structure is for begin. When it get into dynamic, it goes further into dynamic momentum and force flow play level.
A force flow play make use of structure adaptively and instantaneously . Holding on to something without purpose is the root of force flow stagnation .

Chi sau is for experimenting sensing, force flow, force path, momentum handling.



3. a female art -----

Just mean not fighting force with force structure with structure. To compete who is stronger.




4. does not block sideways off the centerline ------

That is the uniqueness of Wck. Wck rather turn then block side way. Wck sets are design to have most effective and efficient power generation close to the center line.

The general rule of training the sets are

手要對心。手從心發。拳不離中 掌不過膊。
Which means one operate ones technics within the triangle area in front of one. With the two shoulder as two point and the two strect out hands meet in front the center line as the third point. These three point define the triangle.

Out of the triangle means no power zone.

5. spine never takes any force ----

Using spine to takes force cause spine to be the target. One inject of force vector into it will damage it. Accident will damage it.


6. receives and sends force at the exact same time -----

Receive and then send is always one step slower in reality. By the time one send, the opponent has changed.



7. has the feet parallel rather than "pigeon-toed". ------

The joints has to be in an unlock, neutral position to be able to adapt to different angle to support force flow.

Bottom line it is force flow and momentum matter.

[YouKnowWho]

one must go through structure to flow. Otherwise one cannot get to flow.

Hendrrik, I agree with you 100% on this.

If you are

- a beginner and when you punch, your back foot move, you are doing wrong.
- "not" a beginner and when you punch, your back foot "does not" move, you are also doing wrong.

Static is beginner level training, mobility is advance level training. Many people try to jump from stage 1 to stage 2 too quick which is wrong. Many people try to stay in stage 1 for the rest of his life which is also wrong.

[Hendrik]

John,

Agree.


Simple as a punch can tell lots of things.

[Hendrik]

This diagram is the graphic explanation of
The yik kam slt kuen kuit



Yik Kam Wing Chun, Siu Nin Tau set Writing Part 1

Y4右跟屈勁緊反藏
The bending power of the right heel tightly store in the reverse direction.



(Full Kuit is now code in Y1...Yx for onvernient reference. Y4 is the fourth line under the description of ygkym section. On dealing with force flow )



Don't let the loose standing and no deep bending knees , no strong lock hip , no rooting looks cheat you.

It is using a virtue center at the feet ground contact instead of the hip. And a mirror image force projection to balance the up rising force 力從地起。or action reaction force.

[Hendrik]

Contact http://www.newmartialhero.it/
If you like to get the full translate kuit , history, art, infor. Last week an article has been published in Italy Wing chun magazine .

[anerlich]

One doesn't expect female to root like man.

Most Australians would agree.

[KPM]

Most Australians would agree.

I wasn't going to touch that one! But I was waiting for one of you Aussies to chime in.

[KPM]

Thanks Hendrik! You last couple of responses helped to clarify several things for me.


Wck does No side way .
Thus , wck is using its unique strategy, momentum, and force handling.

Ok. I think I am following your point now. I'm picturing Wong Shun Leung and Phillip Bayer in the way they go directly in and avoid "chasing hands" or even sticking as in Chi Sao when possible.



In a coil sprint action and reaction happen in the same time, when you press a spring, action force, the coil spring push back at you, reaction force.

Not exactly the true physics of it, but I get your point from the analogy.



Wck idea is center line capture/strike/control and nulify has to happen at the same instance otherwise is one step late..


Different strategy

Yes, I see what you are saying now


Biu Jee set is for the third momentum of Wck, the recovery momentum. To recover means one has already lost the center and structure. Those no longer in ones possession already, one needs to recover in that situation.

This fits with the idea I was taught that it is for "emergency situations." Having lost the center and structure would count as an "emergency." But thinking of it as recovering momentum does help clarify that.



IMHO, it is more a force pair balancing on the run, then rooting as in the southern fist .

I think I understand what you are saying, but I'll have to think about that one and work on it.


Because what he shared decade ago is the basic of using body integration , some wcner at that time is using only arm but no body integration, and what I show is a step beyond the body structure , time to get into Jin flow and momentum. Where body integration and structure need to turn into dynamic flow.
To be able to flow, one needs dynamic . To learn dynamic one needs to make the structure alive. And no longer hold on to structure.

That makes better sense now. So you are saying that it's not that the structural elements are unimportant, just that what you are talking about is the next step beyond those structural elements.

one must go through structure to flow. Otherwise one cannot get to flow.

Rooting as most think or in souhtern fist is not force balancing but holding and sustaining.

Force path and force flow play needs a loose and light body. As in taiji , it says, it is so light that it will not hold an extra weight of a feather. It is a different paradigm .

Ok. I think we are getting somewhere now! :-)

We know today that when the three set system created in 1855. Wck go through a quick fighter training cultural change. We know the post 1855 cut away lots of chinese body of the art develoment and focus into get some one to the battle field quick culture . now 160 years later it has its pro and con. We now try to present both the pre and post , but things will not happen over night. And some will see it different then their Wck because Wck does evolve. And 160 years is a long time .

Yes, this makes good sense from an historical viewpoint. After 1855 a lot of what you are talking about was likely lost as they "ramped up" the training program to make it faster and more efficient in a shorter timeframe. But what they were doing after 1855 stilled worked, or they wouldn't have done it! So you have to be careful in how you present your material. Its not that what most people are doing is wrong. Its just that what you are working on could give most people's Wing Chun a "new dimension". It seems like it truly is a step in the direction of making Wing Chun more of a "soft" or "internal" art. This likely won't appeal to a lot of people, but it is still a valid and valuable way of doing Wing Chun. Convincing people that it is a "better" way will be difficult. This is going to appeal more to people that have been doing Wing Chun for a long time and already sense that there is a further "dimension" beyond the typical "muscular" approach. Heck, I'm not there yet! But at least I can now get a sense of what you are talking about. Thanks!

[GlennR]

I wasn't going to touch that one! But I was waiting for one of you Aussies to chime in.

Aussie number two chiming in!

[Hendrik]

Wck does No side way .
Thus , wck is using its unique strategy, momentum, and force handling.

Ok. I think I am following your point now. I'm picturing Wong Shun Leung and Phillip Bayer in the way they go directly in and avoid "chasing hands" or even sticking as in Chi Sao when possible. --------------



Yes, if you take a look here

Start 4.24 to 4.40 see how Jerry capture the center of the Hsing Yee opponent. That is 用中守中,奪中直冲勢, using center capture center uniqueness. The hand doesn't goes out side the triangle , many think Hsing Yee is the mother art of Wck. Well, evidence show they have different DNA and hsing Yee is not Wck lau choong sau 留中手。or remain in center hand. Due to that Wck generate power, handling momentum different then hsing Yee .



http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=91yth...%3D91ythWqde-c


So, things might look similar in different style , but those who know the DNA is doing a unique art.



From this wck momentum DNA, one knows, if one practices of set as snt, not following this but go side way. It is an evolve version.

Wck doesn't do the following even though the following attack center too.


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=PAiAn...%3DPAiAnMFtCxU


Biu Jee set is for the third momentum of Wck, the recovery momentum. To recover means one has already lost the center and structure. Those no longer in ones possession already, one needs to recover in that situation.

This fits with the idea I was taught that it is for "emergency situations." Having lost the center and structure would count as an "emergency." But thinking of it as recovering momentum does help clarify that. -------


Emergency means lost the handling , may be via mistake, surprise , accident....etc recovery means to abandon and return to center . Ie, at emergency the the army has lost its based.



IMHO, it is more a force pair balancing on the run, then rooting as in the southern fist .

I think I understand what you are saying, but I'll have to think about that one and work on it. ------


Understood.
You need to develop your Jin path and Jin flow, otherwise you don't have tools to implement it. A different mechanics.



Because what he shared decade ago is the basic of using body integration , some wcner at that time is using only arm but no body integration, and what I show is a step beyond the body structure , time to get into Jin flow and momentum. Where body integration and structure need to turn into dynamic flow.
To be able to flow, one needs dynamic . To learn dynamic one needs to make the structure alive. And no longer hold on to structure.

That makes better sense now. So you are saying that it's not that the structural elements are unimportant, just that what you are talking about is the next step beyond those structural elements. ------

Yes. Get into the resonance of the six core elements dynamically . So one can handle dynamic momentum.

As John point out one must not stop at structure step.



one must go through structure to flow. Otherwise one cannot get to flow.

Rooting as most think or in souhtern fist is not force balancing but holding and sustaining.

Force path and force flow play needs a loose and light body. As in taiji , it says, it is so light that it will not hold an extra weight of a feather. It is a different paradigm .

Ok. I think we are getting somewhere now! :-) -------

Great!





We know today that when the three set system created in 1855. Wck go through a quick fighter training cultural change. We know the post 1855 cut away lots of chinese body of the art develoment and focus into get some one to the battle field quick culture . now 160 years later it has its pro and con. We now try to present both the pre and post , but things will not happen over night. And some will see it different then their Wck because Wck does evolve. And 160 years is a long time .

Yes, this makes good sense from an historical viewpoint. After 1855 a lot of what you are talking about was likely lost as they "ramped up" the training program to make it faster and more efficient in a shorter timeframe. But what they were doing after 1855 stilled worked, or they wouldn't have done it! -------

Correct.

However, one issue exist after 160 years of evolution, Wck has combine other southern art. For example we talk about the Wck uniqueness as in above Jerry Vesus hsing Yee or Wsl clip. That is accord to 1855. But how many recognize this today? Instead of practicing southern fist fusion Wck?

So, there are the pre 1855 body of art and post 1855 application which are not common to some wcners today.





So you have to be careful in how you present your material. Its not that what most people are doing is wrong. Its just that what you are working on could give most people's Wing Chun a "new dimension". -----

Correct.
An some Wck lineages still have the material i brought up.
I am not exclusive.
But without these core element brought up, we will evolve into different direction and lost the core soon.



It seems like it truly is a step in the direction of making Wing Chun more of a "soft" or "internal" art. This likely won't appeal to a lot of people, but it is still a valid and valuable way of doing Wing Chun. Convincing people that it is a "better" way will be difficult. This is going to appeal more to people that have been doing Wing Chun for a long time and already sense that there is a further "dimension" beyond the typical "muscular" approach. Heck, I'm not there yet! But at least I can now get a sense of what you are talking about. Thanks! --------

You are welcome,

Actually, I am just telling the story "once upon a time Wck" and let people take or drop . Every one has their way. And free to choose their own direction. But the info has to get out so those who look for it knows how the grandparents are like.

[guy b.]

Yes, if you take a look here

Start 4.24 to 4.40 see how Jerry capture the center of the Hsing Yee opponent. That is 用中守中,奪中直冲勢, using center capture center uniqueness. The hand doesn't goes out side the triangle , many think Hsing Yee is the mother art of Wck. Well, evidence show they have different DNA and hsing Yee is not Wck lau choong sau 留中手。or remain in center hand. Due to that Wck generate power, handling momentum different then hsing Yee .



http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=91yth...%3D91ythWqde-c

If achieving this kind of wing chun is what you are talking about, why go to all the trouble of energy flow paths, history, yik kam transform and all of the other stuff you have presented? This is just regular wsl wing chun done well.