Decent light sparring vid

[k gledhill]

One of my kung fu brothers in the states brought this thread to my attention and this is the most correct observation on the situation I've read in this entire thread. -



I usually don't comment on topics like this, but having read some of the other comments on here, I would like to state that I am no stranger to progressive full contact training and my family's school in Chicago has trained quite a few full contact fighters, (feel free to google me). Also, my Sihing Jerry was a former sanda champion in Hong Kong and has lived and fought professionally (wages paid by the government) in China (all public record). People making uneducated assumptions without research in attempt to prove oneself knowledgeable will often lead others to see one's ignorance.

We were filming a documentary, we were not training nor were we trying kill each other, we were engaging in gloveless friendly exchanges with strangers in order to understand and display their methods to the audience. Friendly exchanges sans protective equipment will imply limitations. If one understands anything about progressive training or have engaged in friendly (or maybe not so friendly) exchanges it might appear more obvious.

Just a side note - though it might come as a surprise to some, western boxing is not the end all of progressive fight training.

-Philip Ng

Thanks for clarifying. Good series by the way.

[straightblast5]

Thanks for clarifying. Good series by the way.

Thank you

[Wayfaring]

Thank you

Yes, thanks Phillip for dropping by. The explanation makes sense to me - it always looked like just some light sparring to me.

I'm sure you could expand a bit on the Western boxing is not the end all to progressive training if you had the time to spend explaining it.

What is you guys philosophy on how soon to start students sparring? Any restrictions / limitations initially? What are the stages in your progression? Do you use Straight Blast Gym stages (from your screen name)?

[straightblast5]

Yes, thanks Phillip for dropping by. The explanation makes sense to me - it always looked like just some light sparring to me.

I'm sure you could expand a bit on the Western boxing is not the end all to progressive training if you had the time to spend explaining it.

What is you guys philosophy on how soon to start students sparring? Any restrictions / limitations initially? What are the stages in your progression? Do you use Straight Blast Gym stages (from your screen name)?

Thank you for your comment, my screen-name refers to the Ving Tsun straightblast punch, not the Straight Blast Gym, though I have the utmost respect for people who study there (or anywhere else for that matter, as long as the training is honest and the methodology in relation to its goals is clear).

Due to the popularity and wide-spread practice of western boxing, it is no surprise that people turn to the boxing for use as examples in their arguments since the objectives of the game are generally understood and good examples of proficient western boxing can be easily found in the media. That being said, what I meant by my comment is that other methods of combat also have their progression training from basics to "full-resistance" which are just as valid (and at the end of the day not that different).

There is a very clear progressive curriculum that we use in my family's school to bring a student from basics to progressively greater resistance sparring which can be found on our academy's website. But a general summary of our views on progressive training can be found here in one of my kung fu brother's blog entries - http://hungsingmartialarts.blogspot....on-static.html

BTW, I quite enjoy a civil conversation (even the occasional civil debate) but more often than not, online conversations tend to get besieged by petty insults and baseless self-boasting and that does not benefit anyone in or outside of the martial arts community. I hope further discussions can maintain a level of civility as I would like to further contribute to the conversation if the opportunity arises.

Thank you,
Philip

[k gledhill]

BTW, I quite enjoy a civil conversation (even the occasional civil debate) but more often than not, online conversations tend to get besieged by petty insults and baseless self-boasting and that does not benefit anyone in or outside of the martial arts community. I hope further discussions can maintain a level of civility as I would like to further contribute to the conversation if the opportunity arises.


You nailed it ; )

[Wayfaring]

Due to the popularity and wide-spread practice of western boxing, it is no surprise that people turn to the boxing for use as examples in their arguments since the objectives of the game are generally understood and good examples of proficient western boxing can be easily found in the media. That being said, what I meant by my comment is that other methods of combat also have their progression training from basics to "full-resistance" which are just as valid (and at the end of the day not that different).

Good observation. I guess good boxing gyms have a workable progression. MMA schools too - the good ones.

And of course, traditional arts are no different - better ones take you through that progression.

There is a very clear progressive curriculum that we use in my family's school to bring a student from basics to progressively greater resistance sparring which can be found on our academy's website. But a general summary of our views on progressive training can be found here in one of my kung fu brother's blog entries - http://hungsingmartialarts.blogspot....on-static.html

I like your progressive curriculum. Of course it is not rocket science, but simple, few steps, and effective. The restricted and full sparring looked good to me. Good progression of movement, and as a result, the full sparring movement looked good. It's hard to see out of those face cages though but the tradeoff for being able to train full force strikes to the head is worth it.

BTW, I quite enjoy a civil conversation (even the occasional civil debate) but more often than not, online conversations tend to get besieged by petty insults and baseless self-boasting and that does not benefit anyone in or outside of the martial arts community. I hope further discussions can maintain a level of civility as I would like to further contribute to the conversation if the opportunity arises.

We do too. Yet of course our conversations are besieged by all you say. Part of it is the lineage nature of wing chun, and of course the normal trolling / games that are part of any internet forum. And forum disagreements.

Is the static worth the content? That's probably still up in the air But every once in a while you pick up some tidbits that stir some gray matter.

[straightblast5]

I like your progressive curriculum. Of course it is not rocket science, but simple, few steps, and effective. The restricted and full sparring looked good to me. Good progression of movement, and as a result, the full sparring movement looked good. It's hard to see out of those face cages though but the tradeoff for being able to train full force strikes to the head is worth it.

Thank you again for your comments

Even rocket science can be learned effectively if taught properly and progressively (otherwise there would be no rocket scientists). From what I have experienced, I find it when people do not really understand something, they tend to make it much more complicated then necessary in hopes of sounding wise. Fighting is a simple concept with very clear goals, and every proposed combat method must have a simple and clear progression training method so all students are getting the same information are able to progress to the goal of efficiently incapacitating their opponent.

-Philip

[guy b.]

Here is what I am saying when we fight we want to and need to put our body into our strikes. That is critical ok? We practice doing that in sparring. It is a very difficult skill to develop especially when an opponent is trying to hit us. So that takes lots and lots of practice. Sparring. Slapping does not do that so you are not getting practice doing what you need to do. It also changes the whole dynamic going on so you are not learning to pick up the cues you will get when your opponent is really hitting. Also the same set ups and so forth will not be there.

This is light contact sparring. It is also done in boxing and every other striking martial art on the planet. The intent is not the same as hard contact sparring but it is still very beneficial. I would say the Orr guys have not done enough light contact since they do not show any recognisible wing chun skills in their body sparring.

[guy b.]

You spend time at a boxing gym right? Get in the ring and try to slap their ears and report back on how that went for you.

It is quite easy to knock someone out with a slap to the ear. Boxers are just people, not superheroes as you seem to believe and they can also be knocked out with a slap. It wouldn't be a popular thing to do at a boxing gym because boxing has rules that prohibit slapping the ear and so it isn't expected.

[guy b.]

Yes I have been punched in the throat by people intending it. Bare-knuckle and gloved. This is where the detail of my observations come from - experience. Unlike yourself, who obviously haven't practiced this much.

I don't think you have been punched in the throat by anyone intending to hurt you. Otherwise you wouldn't be sitting typing happily on your computer about the experience.

The main point you are missing is that in my fighting stance you aren't going to be able to hit my throat. It is not an accessible target. And even if it was, the chin position I use and cover makes it a very small hard to hit target. And that chin position and stance offers more protection to the soft tissue.

lol, of course you have an invulnerable fighting stance. Why didn't this prevent you getting punched in the throat many times (wrt your previous glib claim)?

You sound like you live close enough to the guy to swing by and train with him and share all these ideas in person. No idea why you wouldn't do that instead of all this on the internet.

Have done so, not impressed.

People are so afraid to "lose their wing chun" that they NEVER spar. And the fact they never spar leads to more lack of ability to enforce their game in a live environment. Which leads to them floundering around and slap fighting when sparring as opposed to being able to hold up their discipline under pressure.

More top tips for idiots from coach Wayfaring

[guy b.]

Yes, thanks Phillip for dropping by. The explanation makes sense to me - it always looked like just some light sparring to me.

I'm sure you could expand a bit on the Western boxing is not the end all to progressive training if you had the time to spend explaining it.

What is you guys philosophy on how soon to start students sparring? Any restrictions / limitations initially? What are the stages in your progression? Do you use Straight Blast Gym stages (from your screen name)?

lol you changed your tune fast

[GlennR]

It is quite easy to knock someone out with a slap to the ear. Boxers are just people, not superheroes as you seem to believe and they can also be knocked out with a slap. It wouldn't be a popular thing to do at a boxing gym because boxing has rules that prohibit slapping the ear and so it isn't expected.

Really?
Easy is it?
Youve done it, seen it??

Deadly thrusting fingers next?

[Hendrik]

Amazing fake wcners are all over the forum.


Didn't your sifu teaches you the famous and critical Wck throat sealing hand , fung Hau sau?
It is in the dummy , in the set....etc.

Don't tell me you are a wcner if you don't know it.


For Those who is clueless on Wck watch this to learn. Admit it you are not wcner.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84bxXXh...%3D84bxXXhnB_I

Go watch the Jerry video see how many time he did Fung hao but not strike it instead of look like a slap. Such a simple clear things.


Take a look at for example 7.20 on the Jerry clip. If Jerry not giving face but strike. The gAme is over.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFsAaC...%3DSxFsAaC4XK8

Really?
Easy is it?
Youve done it, seen it??

Deadly thrusting fingers next?

[GlennR]

Amazing fake wcners are all over the forum.


Didn't your sifu teaches you the famous and critical Wck throat sealing hand , hong Hau sau?
It is in the dummy , in the set....etc.

Don't tell me you are a wcner if you don't know it.

Oh here he comes... Mr 1850

Thats a palm strike, not a "slap".

So how often have you used that in sparring Hendrik?

[Hendrik]

You are stupid enough to not even recognize it is one of basic technic for implementing The capture center guarding center Wck DNA. Idiotic enough to not see the Wck don't have to hurt others if no need to.

Go watch Jerry clip and learn before open you mouth. The more you talk the more you reveal you are a pretender.


I purposely not bring this up until now to count who is wcner who is not. And now we know.

Oh here he comes... Mr 1850

Thats a palm strike, not a "slap".

So how often have you used that in sparring Hendrik?