Temple Kung Fu

[Skarbromantis]

I've had my troubles. But the style is good, and effective, and I can personally vouch for that.

But is it real kung-fu?.........or you dont care?

7 wasted years....it's shame.

Skard1

[PHILBERT]

Skarbromantis, he made a more detailed reply over in the Bad Budo section of E-budo.com. I wrote up on the board a long story about Temple Kung Fu and he replied talking about how his parents wasted thousands on it. What I don't get is this, he says it is good and it is bad at the same time. So he constantly contradicts himself. Schitzo?

[Skarbromantis]

he says it is good and it is bad at the same time. So he constantly contradicts himself.

Yeah ...its BAD to feel GOOD about training with TKF

Skard1

[JasBourne]

"His Holiness the Dalai Seng Shih, formerly Grand Master Simon"

bleh.

If you want "His Holiness" to "train your chi", you can travel at your own expense up to his "Neo Ch'an Buddhist Temple" in Grand Forks, Canada, and pony up $195 per "sitting".

Wot a crock of sh*t. Step right up, buy your enlightment today.

[jun_erh]

"There's nothing else near me, and I've already paid my entire membership there."



good luck dude.

[KungFuGuy!]

Why did you ressurrect this thread? I made it in like august.
Anyways, I cut my loses and quit that place.

[couch]

"Trying to win an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics...

You've won, but you're still retarded."

Late,
Couch

[jon]

couch

Let me get this strait...
You are trying to DEFEND the actions which have been discribed in this thread?
You are right about not winning this war, its already been won.

Here is another pearl of wisdom for you...

The bad thing about being in a rat race is, even if you win...
Your still a rat!

Not to mention the whole fact of the "special olympics" display exactly the things which our arts SHOULD develop...
Charactor, heart, commitment, determination.
That is insulting in the best light.
Im not trying to be P.C with you but that really is pushing the limits of both moral and taste.


Go back to the temple pay your fee's and buy another belt to hang on your wall.

[KungFuGuy!]

But couch, I don't see how it could be effective. Sure, the workouts can be hard but they're dulled down for the out of shape people in the class, and if your studio is anything like mine then that's about half the class. Also, most skill classes spend about 30 minutes doing defense against punches. The problem is, it's always the same punch delivered at the same speed and the same location, and if you face someone on the street, and one of those variables have changed, you won't know what to do. Often times these punch defenses are reliant on your attacker not moving after he threw the punch, and on the street he'll try to get out of your grip, or even throw another punch.
Also, sparring is a vital part of any combat heavy martial art, and temple kung fu instructors have been known to call this brand of kung fu "combat kung fu". How could "combat kung fu" spar once per week, and charge you $800 per year for it?
Even if it is effective, I can't stand being deceived like that. They tell me that he trained with monks in china, but he's saying in court that he was never in china, and the extent of his martial arts training came from his uncle in germany who taught him kempo karate when he was a kid. I can't train under instructors who I don't respect, and I don't respect the various 19-21 year olds who spend 5 minutes of my private lesson trying to pressure sell various books and gear to me. I can't respect them because they know what they teach is fraudulant, but they do it anyway.
I'm moving on to jeet kune do this week, and I'm thinking of cross training in taiji aswell. I won't give temple kung fu another thought.

[Majic Sam]

KFG,here's how I see it.You are more important than the style.Train where and with whom you like.Check out other styles and find what works best in ALL ranges.Be careful of giving people money who have been proven dishonest in a court of law.This doesn't bode well for you,and liars have some karma to deal with eventually.If Simon impresses you as a martial artist at 70 years old,then check out Dan Inosanto or Helios Gracie.They are not liars,and would tear Reverend Simon a new azzhole,not that he needs another one(present company now withstanding,of course).All the best,Grasshopper!

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."-Oz The Omnipotent

[couch]

The reason I brought this thread up again, KungFuGuy is because just in case you couldn't find any other schools around you, as you stated before. It was just ment as encouragement to keep training at something you like no matter what.

Anyways, we'll leave it alone.

As far as me being a schizo, far from it. There are good points and bad points about everything in life. The bad points to out-weigh the good in Temple Kung-Fu's example, but I believe that training is training.

For the longest time, I have heard lots of opinions about Temple myself.

I want proof. I'm not calling anyone a liar, or saying that he didn't train with his uncle, but I personally am willing to search out the truth to ?rest? my soul.

Everything is hearsay, unfortunately. And the internet has got to be the best/worst place for it.


I have heard about his students taking him to court, but I personally would like names of these people. Also, to know if these court documents are available to the public, etc.

Any input would be grand.

Cheers,
Couch

[KungFuGuy!]

I didn't know it was you who ressurected the thread, I thought it was jon or jun_erth beating a dead horse. My appologies to all of you!
If you want proof, take a look at the fine print of one of your instructors certificates, and if it's anything like Mr. Sparrow's, it will be authorized by the national kempo association. Now, take a look at your belt certificates. It should say "Signed and Sealed under the code of the Association on the...". "the association? Ask an instructor which association they mean and watch him stammer as he tries to come up with a fake answer. Want to know what mine said? "Uh, it's the association of kung fu". Right...
Also, although I don't have a link, there is a court log somewhere of simon's testimony in a lawsuit filed against him. Someone on the forum refered me to it, maybe they'll link it again.
Training is training? Come on, you don't believe that. It's never too late to switch schools. I took taekwondo for 9 years and quit because I wanted something more. Unfortunately I found something less But once again, I decided the best course of action was to move on.

[anton]

Very interesting info about tkf.IMO this is demeaning and disrespectful to both kung fu and kempo. I wonder if anyone has tried to contact the kempo association and tell them about 'His Holiness' fraudulent activities, maybe they would revoke their certification.

On nother note this McShaolin Do crap makes me think that an organised international Kung Fu body is a good idea. Perhaps they could figure out a way of only allowing people with an established lineage to advertise their style as "Kung Fu", sorty of like you cant call alcoholic beverages Champagne or Cognac unless they were produced in the relevant regions.

[Skarbromantis]

I have heard about his students taking him to court, but I personally would like names of these people. Also, to know if these court documents are available to the public, etc.

Richard Shergold (sp?)

I have the Transcripts saved on my P.C from the court case you can find them in the public records it happened in Calgary around 87 (year? not sure) but i can post them if you want??

Skard1

[couch]

WILLIAM KWAI SUN CHOW...
One of Mitose’s students, who was promoted to Black Belt by Thomas Young was William Kwai Sun Chow. William Chow, would later revamp Kosho-ryu, adding elements of his fathers system of Gung fu, creating his own system of Kempo, called Chinese Kara-ho Kempo Karate. Born on July 3rd, 1914, William Chow was also known as "Thunderbolt" because of his incredible speed and power. He spent most of his life practicing and perfecting his martial arts. He became quite famous for his martial prowess and excellent memory of techniques.
Originally, Chow’s system of Kempo was called Goshin-jitsu. This system is still being taught today by William Chun Jr, the son of William Chun Sr. who trained with Professor Chow. After some refinement, Chow changed the name of his style to "Chinese Kempo of Kara-ho Karate". This would later be simply called Chinese Kara-ho Kempo Karate. Today, Kara-ho Kempo is being led by Grandmaster Sam Kuoha, who runs the Kwai Sun Company, an organization that he and Chow created to legitimize those claiming to teach Kara-ho Kempo. William Chow died in Honolulu on September 21, 1987.

Over the years, William K.S. Chow had many students, including: Nick Cerio (who formed Nick Cerio’s Kenpo), Adrian Emperado (who was one of the founders of Kajukenbo), Ralph Castro, (who founded Shaolin Kenpo), Sam Kuoha (Kara-ho Kempo), William Chun Sr. & Jr. (Goshin-jitsu), and a man named Edmund K. Parker.

EDMUND KEALOHA PARKER...
Ed Parker was born in Hawaii on March 19, 1931, and raised a devout Morman. He began his martial arts studies with Judo, becoming a Black Belt at the age of fifteen. Ed Parker began his Kempo training under Frank Chow, William Chow’s brother. When Frank Chow had nothing left to teach him, Frank Chow introduced Ed Parker to his brother William Chow, and it was then that Ed Parker knew that Kenpo would become his life’s work. Parker continued to study with William Chow off and on, while he was attending Brigham University in Provo, Utah (going back to Hawaii periodically) and serving in the Coast Guard, stationing in Hawaii. He received his Black Belt from William Chow on June 5, 1953.

Parker opened his first school in Provo in 1954. Parker then moved to Pasadena, California, in 1956. He remained in Pasadena teaching the "original" Kenpo he had learned from Chow until 1960. In 1961, with the help from Gung-Fu master James (Jimmy) Wing Woo, Ed Parker developed "Traditional Chinese" Kenpo. Woo would develop most of the forms and sets which Parker's system now uses, with help from Ed Parker's first Black Belt, James Ibrao, and Parker himself. Parker also removed most of the Jiu-jitsu techniques including the falls and rolls. Parker then removed most of the self-defense techniques, from 600 for Fifth Degree Black Belt (over 400 were required for 1st Degree Black Belt) down to 178 techniques in total for the entire new system, which became known as Ed Parker’s American Kenpo Karate."

Ed Parker was an incredible martial artist and innovator, creating new forms, sets, self-defense techniques, concepts, theories and principles, making Kempo more scientific than ever before. Ed Parker was a definite pioneer of martial arts in North America. Ed Parker died in Honolulu on December 15, 1990. The "Magician of Motion" will always be remembered and missed. Upon Parker’s death, his organization the International Kenpo Karate Federation, splintered into hundreds of new organizations. Ed Parker’s son, Ed Parker Jr., is a Black Belt in American Kenpo, and runs the Ed Parker Institute along with Ron Chapel, an original Parker student, in the hopes of continuing his fathers legacy.

One of Ed Parkers students while he was in Provo, Utah was a man named Olaf Simon. Olaf Simon taught what he called "Chinese Kempo" in Calgary, Alberta Canada. Two of Olaf Simon’s students were Lyndon and Edward Bateson. The Bateson’s taught Chinese Kempo to a man named Larry Kwan, who is the brother of Glenn Kwan, founder of Genkido Kempo.

GLENN ELLIS KWAN (founder Genkido Kempo)...
Soke Glenn Kwan - Hanshi, started training in the martial arts in Chinese Kempo Karate, in Regina, Saskatchewan, in 1966, under Lyndon and Edward Bateson, two instructors from Grandmaster Olaf Simon’s headquarters in Calgary, Alberta. While training in Regina, Soke Kwan also trained with his brother, Larry Kwan, in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and moving to Penticton, British Columbia, he achieved his brown belt ranking in Kyokushikai Karate, under Master Ben Bertram. Soke Kwan returned to Moose Jaw in 1972, and once again began training with his brother Larry, who founded the Kempo Sho-kai system of martial arts. In June of 1974, Hanshi Kwan achieved his 1st degree Black Belt in Chinese Kempo Karate. In 1974, Soke Kwan moved to Barrie, Ontario, and began teaching what has evolved into Genki-do Kempo Karate, incorporating Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and North American Freestyle Karate. Undoubtedly the evolution of Genkido Kempo was influenced by many of the teachers Soke Kwan trained with, including: Grandmaster Ed Parker (American Kenpo Karate), Soke Steve Reynolds (Jiu-jitsu-kai), Grandmaster Chuck Platten (Hapkido), Sensei Monty Guest (Chito-ryu), Soke Israel Segarra (Goju-kai), Prof. Wally Jay (Small Circle Jiu-jitsu), O’Sensei Harold Howard (Jiu-jitsu), Grandmaster Olaf Simon (Kempo), Grandmaster Denis R. Decker (Chi Ling Pai Kempo).

In 1995 Soke Kwan was awarded the rank of 7th Dan in Chinese Kempo Karate by the Canadian Martial Arts Association (then run by his brother), and was recognized by the International Eastern USA Martial Arts Association, as well as the Kai-Shin Karate Association, Police Martial Arts Association, and Goshin Jutsu International. Soke Kwan is on the board of directors of the following associations: Eastern USA Martial Arts Association, Goshin-jutsu International Martial Arts Association, as a technical advisor in Chinese Kempo, Chito-ryu, and Jiu-jitsu. As well, Soke Kwan is also currently the President of the Canadian Martial Arts Association, and Kempo Karate International. In 1995, Grandmaster Denis R. Decker, of Edgewater, Florida, granted Hanshi Kwan, his 7th degree Black Belt in Chinese Kempo Karate, and Sifu 1st level, in Chi Lin Pai Kung Fu, and welcomed him into the Chi Lin Pai family. In 1997, he was appointed a director of Futurebound, an organization to help students stay in School. In August, 1997, Martial Arts Masters, Legends, and Pioneers Hall of Fame introduced Hanshi Kwan as Grandmaster Kwan.

NOTE: We wish to thank Sensei Jason Ward for all his help in providing us with a "concise" Kempo history for these pages.


This was done in a search with google, and it's a chached page:http://google.com/search?q=cache:JiD...ate+olaf&hl=en

Later, Couch