On why I think Hendrik is on to something.

[JPinAZ]

None of those threads focused on the teaching point I made. I am a bit old fashioned when it comes to using forums in that I like to have threads that stay on topic and don't bounce around through the introduction of different topics or points in a single thread.

Maybe you are right, they didn't focus on the teaching aspects, which is also quite surprising given the amount of time and effort he's devoted to promoting this new discovery of his.
I wasn't trying to 'bounce around' or go off topic, I just figured the actual technology and how Hendrik came by it was relevent since his name is in the title. I was interested in hearing your opinion on where/when/how Henrdik came by this information and it may be a clue as to why he's never commented on how/when to teach it. If it's a new discovery for him from another art that wasn't originally in his WC, then that would maybe make sense why.

You make a good point asking why some are not introduced to those reference points even when the given lineage has that body of knowledge. Indeed, it is a question I ask too and the answers, I imagine, are quite varied but my cynical mind inclines me towards the thought that some Sifu's don't want their students to develop 'too fast'. Is it too cynical to suggest that some Sifu's drip feed their students intentionally?

No idea. I haven't experienced that type of hold back of information from either of my sifus or lineages so can't comment. Maybe I was just lucky or something?

[GlennR]

None of those threads focused on the teaching point I made. I am a bit old fashioned when it comes to using forums in that I like to have threads that stay on topic and don't bounce around through the introduction of different topics or points in a single thread.

You make a good point asking why some are not introduced to those reference points even when the given lineage has that body of knowledge. Indeed, it is a question I ask too and the answers, I imagine, are quite varied but my cynical mind inclines me towards the thought that some Sifu's don't want their students to develop 'too fast'. Is it too cynical to suggest that some Sifu's drip feed their students intentionally?

Is it too cynical of me to suggest that some Sifus dont see merit in introducing these concepts till later?

[GlennR]

Maybe you are right, they didn't focus on the teaching aspects, which is also quite surprising given the amount of time and effort he's devoted to promoting this new discovery of his.
I wasn't trying to 'bounce around' or go off topic, I just figured the actual technology and how Hendrik came by it was relevent since his name is in the title. I was interested in hearing your opinion on where/when/how Henrdik came by this information and it may be a clue as to why he's never commented on how/when to teach it. If it's a new discovery for him from another art that wasn't originally in his WC, then that would maybe make sense why.

Apparently the title of the thread doesnt count

No idea. I haven't experienced that type of hold back of information from either of my sifus or lineages so can't comment. Maybe I was just lucky or something?

Same

[Paddington]

Apparently the title of the thread doesnt count
[...]

It is very difficult to encapsulate the entirety of a point, particularly when it is a compound point, in a thread title. I do, however, qualify that title in my posts.

[GlennR]

It is very difficult to encapsulate the entirety of a point, particularly when it is a compound point, in a thread title. I do, however, qualify that title in my posts.

Then take on board when someone asks for you to clarify your post, having viewed the post in the context of the heading, that a polite, simple answer would go a long way

[Paddington]

Then take on board when someone asks for you to clarify your post, having viewed the post in the context of the heading, that a polite, simple answer would go a long way

I did. As some acknowledged, they didn't even bother fully reading what I first wrote and but skimmed over it. Just stop with these straw man arguments and this constant harrying please. Now that you appear to understand what I meant there is no need for your quips. Thank you.

[KPM]

Kevin, you mentioned that discussion thing before and fair enough, this is a discussion forum.
That said people post videos all the time.
Some of them are instructional, some are demos and some are actual fights.
I don't think that it is unwarranted to ask a person that has post videos before, to post one showing the practical applications of their theories, no?

tc101 repeats his mantra ad nauseum on multiple threads and has never once posted a video of himself showing that HE can actually DO anything he talks about. Sure, videos are welcome and interesting. But no one should feel that are required to post a video in order to participate in a discussion on any topic. No one has to prove anything to anyone here. If someone is trying to explain a technique or tactic that just isn't coming across well in the discussion, then sure it is reasonable to ask that person (nicely) if they can provide a video illustrating what they are saying. But no one should feel obligated to "prove" what they are saying just because someone else doesn't agree with it. Don't you agree? tc101 is of the opinion that hardly anyone here has anything of value to say because, according to him, none of us train "realistically" and because we don't actually know how to "do" anything. So why he continues to come here is a mystery. But I, for one, have grown quite tired of hearing his same mantra over and over.

[KPM]

You ask how can we tell who has knowledge? Well one thing we can do is ask are you doing it? If some one says they think we should be controlling an opponents balance in fighting ask them if they are doing it or if they know anyone doing it or is it something they just think would be a nice thing to be able to do.

Your tag like is Vulcan wing chun but I think you should change it to idle speculation wing chun because that is what so much of your discussion involves.

That, is just patently wrong. In the thread you reference, not only did I say I WAS doing it, but I provided you examples and videos of OTHERS doing it....including Alan Orr. But that wasn't good enough for you because you were already convinced that I was wrong. You can ask someone if they are actually "doing it" and they might very tell you anything they think you want to hear. You have no idea whether they are telling you the truth or not. Again, this is a DISCUSSION FORUM, you STILL don't seem to get that. If you want "proof" that someone is knowledgeable and can "do" what they are saying, you're going to have to meet them face to face to find out. Otherwise, we are here to d..I...s....c.....u....s......s. If you think that all anyone does here is just idle speculation, then go spend your time in the MMA forum.

[sanjuro_ronin]

tc101 repeats his mantra ad nauseum on multiple threads and has never once posted a video of himself showing that HE can actually DO anything he talks about. Sure, videos are welcome and interesting. But no one should feel that are required to post a video in order to participate in a discussion on any topic. No one has to prove anything to anyone here. If someone is trying to explain a technique or tactic that just isn't coming across well in the discussion, then sure it is reasonable to ask that person (nicely) if they can provide a video illustrating what they are saying. But no one should feel obligated to "prove" what they are saying just because someone else doesn't agree with it. Don't you agree? tc101 is of the opinion that hardly anyone here has anything of value to say because, according to him, none of us train "realistically" and because we don't actually know how to "do" anything. So why he continues to come here is a mystery. But I, for one, have grown quite tired of hearing his same mantra over and over.

Read what I said Kevin:
IF ( big if) some is willing to post videos of themselves or their students doing compliant demos and training, then there should be no reason to NOT post clips of them actually applying that stuff for real.
You say no one has to prove anything to anyone but I disagree IF ( big if again) they are trying to actually PROVE something like the "correct" way to do something or how WC is suppose to look or be done, etc.
I think you agree that if someone is willing to post a video of them TALKING about a physical MA, about something that CAN and SHOULD be seen, that they can also posy a video DOING it.
No?

[Frost]

Read what I said Kevin:
IF ( big if) some is willing to post videos of themselves or their students doing compliant demos and training, then there should be no reason to NOT post clips of them actually applying that stuff for real.
You say no one has to prove anything to anyone but I disagree IF ( big if again) they are trying to actually PROVE something like the "correct" way to do something or how WC is suppose to look or be done, etc.
I think you agree that if someone is willing to post a video of them TALKING about a physical MA, about something that CAN and SHOULD be seen, that they can also posy a video DOING it.
No?

How many times have you and I, and others pointed out this dichotomy on this forum??

Its one thing for a style which wishes to remain secret and in the family and for teaches who don’t want publicity to not post clips, but for a style where every other sifu has a youtube and facebook account showing countless videos of forms, chi sao and applications to claim people don’t want to post clips because it might show others their secrets or because they don’t have access to videos is silly. What happens do all the videos and phones stop working once the chisao stops and the gloves come out??

Likewise if a person wants to remain private and secret then there is no need or call for them to post clips, but if they spend countless hours making posts about how a style should look, about how others are doing things wrong then whats stopping them actually posting what they are talking about, I mean if they care enough to make endless comments about others videos, to even make videos talking for what seems like hours about different aspects of their training, why not make a quick clip of actual GASP their art in action?

[sanjuro_ronin]

And that is the point.
What is wrong with asking someone that is ALREADY posting vids for a video of them actually doing what they are saying?

[Wayfaring]

If you think that all anyone does here is just idle speculation, then go spend your time in the MMA forum.

It's not all anyone does. They also spend time figuring out how many dots to put between each letter of their favorite vocabulary word.

Oh and BTW just to head off controversy, if you are going to respond and accuse ME of idle speculation, I will have you know that I absolutely would never be caught dead idly speculating and if you think I'm wrong then #pics-or-gtfo

[Wayfaring]

And that is the point.
What is wrong with asking someone that is ALREADY posting vids for a video of them actually doing what they are saying?

I would have to go with what is wrong being the length of time I need to listen to them drone on and on about it and argue and cajole and debate whether the other person deserves it and debate this and that.

In other forums it's like #VideoOrDidntHappen end of discussion.

[KPM]

Read what I said Kevin:
IF ( big if) some is willing to post videos of themselves or their students doing compliant demos and training, then there should be no reason to NOT post clips of them actually applying that stuff for real.
You say no one has to prove anything to anyone but I disagree IF ( big if again) they are trying to actually PROVE something like the "correct" way to do something or how WC is suppose to look or be done, etc.
I think you agree that if someone is willing to post a video of them TALKING about a physical MA, about something that CAN and SHOULD be seen, that they can also posy a video DOING it.
No?

I have no problem with those points at all. The big qualifier here is "if someone is willing." No one should feel obligated. If anyone here is free to call others names, to taunt them, and essentially harass them and bait them, then why should ANYONE feel obligated to anyone else to prove anything? Its obviously open season here, and no one is anyone else's friend. This is just an open forum, remember? Speaking in very general terms...if you don't like what I have to say, fine. You don't have to believe me. If I choose to post a video to help you understand what I am trying to say, then I will. If you are an a$$hole and just arguing for arguments sake and aren't even trying to see what I am saying, then I don't owe you anything or have to prove anything. Again...speaking in general, not specific to anything we have been talking about here. And I AM NOT talking about Hendrik, as you seem to be insinuating above. Forget Hendrik. I am speaking in general terms. And in regards to tc101, to have someone essentially say "prove it" in so many words in every discussion topic is a bit tiresome. Don't you think?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have no problem with those points at all. The big qualifier here is "if someone is willing." No one should feel obligated. If someone is free to call others names, to taunt them, and essentially harass them and bait them, then why should ANYONE feel obligated to anyone else to prove anything? Speaking in general terms...if you don't like what I have to say, fine. You don't have to believe me. If I choose to post a video to help you understand what I am trying to say, then I will. If you are an a$$hole and just arguing for arguments sake and aren't even trying to see what I am saying, then I don't owe you anything or have to prove anything. Again...speaking in general, not specific to anything we have been talking about here. And I AM NOT talking about Hendrik here, as you seem to be insinuating above. Forget Hendrik. I am speaking in general terms. And to have someone essentially say "prove it" in some many words in every discussion topic is a bit tiresome. Don't you think?

Yes. I agree it is tiresome BUT is it not also tiresome to continually here how A or B is NOT the "real WC" and yet so no evidence from the naysayers as to what the real WC yes?
Or to have someone pontificate how they have the secret ( lost or otherwise) of WC and then not show one practical example even though they post videos all the time? ( Yes that applied to Hendrick, but others as well).
See, I have no problem with someone not being able to post a video BUT can show examples of other people or other videos, ex:
I once posted a clip of Tyson showing how he has much of the same attributes as a good Hung Kuen fighter.
I posted that because I couldn't find one of a HK fighter and did not have any videos of me fighting.
That is ok too, although I was called out on the fact that I posted a boxer not a HK man and that is a fair call out IMO.

The point being that as tiresome as it is to read people asking over and over for a visual example, it is just as tiring hearing over and over the theoretical pontifications with ZERO evidence to back them up.

We do a FIGHTING art is it to mach to ask to see it being used in a fight to prove a point?