Kung Fu in UFC or Pride?

[Crimson Phoenix]

You always prove something in regard to some paradigm...I believe usage of gong fu back in the days and usage of MMA in modern tournaments are two totally different paradigms...you could as well demonstrate that gong fu isn't effective in modern MMA tournaments, it wouldn't give you the right to claim that it is not effective in the streets or in ancient eastern battlefields...and vise versa...

[Yung Apprentice]

I couldn't have said it any better!

[Wongsifu]

AAAAAAHHHH this is where that smell is coming from that stank up the whole forum , theres a dead horse in here

[Tigerstyle]

"I was watching a few pride fights, and the Muay thai fighters couldn't even do roundhouse kicks correct. I mean,...c'mon, are they really representing the ideal of what type of fighter their system would produce? no."

A few guys in there are great Thai boxers. Maurice Smith and Pedro Rizzo come to mind. They have good strong technique, and have both won their fair share of MMA fights using standing strikes. They both also crosstrain in BJJ to be prepared in the event they end up on the ground.


"If i'm remembering correctly, competitors practicing 'Combat' Wrestling are having major success against Brazilian 'wrestlers'. Is that gonna become the new craze. I bet in a year wrestlers are gonna come out of nowhere claiming to practice the ultimate style."

That has already happened. Ken and Frank Shamrock, as well as many Japanese "pro" wrestlers have successfully used "Combat" Wrestling (submission wrestling?) since the early UFC and Pride days. Dan Severn and Mark Coleman are just "regular" wrestlers , and both have done very well representing their style in these MMA events. Coleman was one of the pioneers of the "ground and pound", IMO one of the most successful strategies in MMA today.

There was a period a few years ago (at least in the UFC) where wrestling was the most dominant style (even winning more than BJJ), and at that time some people were making the claim that "wrestling" is the ultimate fighting style. Today, the popular opinion among MMA people seems to be that you must be prepared for all aspects/ranges (except eye gouges ) when you step into the ring, rather than what style is best.


"I see that when a stand up stylist learn and perfect takedown defenses, he is at no disadvantage at all."

Old Jong's tha man! Igor Vochanchin (sp?) is a great example of Jong's statement in use .


"I see it like water skiing. You can have the best balance, streingth, technique, etc. to stay on the skiis, but you HAVE to know how to swim just in case you fall in the water."

(thumbs up icon here, but I don't know how to do it )

[fightfan]

"AAAAAAHHHH this is where that smell is coming from that stank up the whole forum , theres a dead horse in here "


The smell must be coming from your backside since your head is stuck WAY in it.

Now whos the troll on the forum?

[adren@line]

the thing with alot of kung fu kwoons is that they dont concentrate on conditioning and takign a hit. Thats the big differnce b/w kung fu school in the west and east: the west is extremely watered down.

these western schools concentrate on fancy forms and weapons, instead of body conditioning and taking a hit. They teach you how to avoid and to block, but not to absorb one. Thats why the kung fu guys always loose, it has nothingto do with there technique.

and i truly think that a 100% pure kung fu school is useless unless they cross train adn bring i nsome grappling.

but on the flipside
UFC and NHB rules prohibit groin kciks, biting, pinching, and eye gouging......all of which can be used to get out of most submissions and grappling techniques.

[EARTH DRAGON]

You said....................
these western schools concentrate on fancy forms and weapons, instead of body conditioning and taking a hit. They teach you how to avoid and to block, but not to absorb one. Thats why the kung fu guys always loose, it has nothingto do with there technique.

and i truly think that a 100% pure kung fu school is useless unless they cross train adn bring i nsome grappling.

WOW what a sweeping generalization of a assummingly close minded statment. How can you possibly say that?

Are you speaking from experience from visting all the kung fu schoolsl across america? or are you just making a general judgment from your obviously limited knowledge and experience of kung fu and the places that teach????????

[adren@line]

I am speaking from experience. I haev visted many kwoons from north carolina to southern california. Like you stated before i na previous thread, "why condition the body to take a hit when you should learn how to avoid one". That is the problem with kung fu schools.

In a fight, you WILL get hit. Life is not a kung fu movie where you can magically avoid all strikes with split second timing. This is why kung fu guys dont do good in NHB. They cant take hits. Now of course, there are exceptions, but I can guarantee you alot of your famed sifus are not nearly as conditioned as alot of NHB fighters.

to me there are 3 aspects of fighting:
-dishing out a hit
-taking one
-and avoiding one


now all of these cover a broad range of topics (dishing out: punches kicks, offensive), (taking one: physical conditioning, endurance) (avoiding: blocking, verbal and mental aspects) and so on.

kung fu lacks a whole lot of "taking a hit".

[Crimson Phoenix]

To me, the most memorable boxing champs were the ones who could swiftly sway and evade, not just stand there and take hits because they were big and strong...

[Yung Apprentice]

Once again I agree with Crimson.

[Yung Apprentice]

This is like comparing apples and oranges. How can one compare an art that is more geared for sport, to one that is not? They both have strengths, and weaknesses, let's just leave it at that.

[EARTH DRAGON]

So you are standing behind your statment that kung fu is useless unless you crosstrain?????????????

Tell me are you conditioned to take a hit?

if so where and with what?

thanks in adavanced for responding

[Archangel]

Crimson

These champions you talked about also had the body conditioning to take a hit. Do you think they could bob, weave and evade without ever getting hit? Of course not, they took their fair share of punishment as well. If they didn't have the body conditioning behind them, all of that fancy evasion tactics wouldn't mean much at all.

Earth

Everything is LIMITED without cross training, not useless. And that includes BJJ, wrestling, Thai, boxing etc.

[Mantis9]

I have a question. By cross training, do you mean go outside of your choosen art to study another? Or training with other stylists to become aware, comfortable, and/or challenged by their methods, approach, techniques, etc.?

I came into this thread late, so I would appreciate some clarification. Thank you.

[jjj]

>>By cross training, do you mean go outside of your choosen art to study another? Or training with other stylists to become aware, comfortable, and/or challenged by their methods, approach, techniques, etc.? <<

Both.