Hendrick and Company tgreads all here.

[LFJ]

Many old white crane practitioners on Taiwan consider Wing Chun as a sub style of White Crane which found its way to Foshan somewhere between 1780 and 1820 . I tend to believe these people because they keep records about large number of different white crane styles from 1680's until now , about their development and technical changes over time.

It may be possible but can't be claimed conclusive without some records of sorts that show its migration and evolution through people's hands. That's the problem with these guys who think they are doing "research" while making their own answers, the answers they want to have.

A friend of mine was just in town who trains northern styles from Henan province and also began his martial arts training with Wing Chun. Together we dissected the Wing Chun forms and found that 100% of the methods they contain are already found in much older northern styles. There is nothing unique or difficult to understand from a northern perspective. It is just done in a smaller frame and is streamlined.

That's TCMA.

If people interested in doing serious research were familiar with other TCMAs besides just the ones they wanted to investigate, they wouldn't be so naive to jump to conclusions so hastily. The problem is, while the impression they want to portray may be that of serious research, I think their real interest is just in finding things to fit their own conclusions and being the people who found it out.

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSmZtrSqgMY

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0oqA0cEwAY

[Chun Ki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuRzJRrRpQ

[zuti car]

It may be possible but can't be claimed conclusive without some records of sorts that show its migration and evolution through people's hands. That's the problem with these guys who think they are doing "research" while making their own answers, the answers they want to have.


If people interested in doing serious research were familiar with other TCMAs besides just the ones they wanted to investigate, they wouldn't be so naive to jump to conclusions so hastily. The problem is, while the impression they want to portray may be that of serious research, I think their real interest is just in finding things to fit their own conclusions and being the people who found it out.

I totally agree with you . Serious research requires proper set of skills (education) and proper method . I really love history in general but and I do know something about methods of research but I am not historian nor researcher of any kind .Talking to old people and cherry picking the "evidence" from the internet is not a research. When we talk about kung fu history I will go with more probable , more logical story from the more reliable source with a possibility of finding new evidence , better source ect.

[PalmStriker]

That is one agile little goat, Chun Ki. I have started using a combat atance that is a compromise between the TCMA Wing chun "goat stance" and the Hung Gar Ma Bo Horse-riding stance for foundation training for hard-style WingChun. Thanks for posting. MMD. (Made My Day).

[PalmStriker]

Many old white crane practitioners on Taiwan consider Wing Chun as a sub style of White Crane which found its way to Foshan somewhere between 1780 and 1820 . I tend to believe these people because they keep records about large number of different white crane styles from 1680's until now , about their development and technical changes over time.

There you have it. Good enough for me. Now for the snake=fist influence. That snake style link may not want to share their lineage secrets. (Or get caught up in this fiasco).

[ccwayne]

Emei guys like to make their findings without any proof and to announce to public. Jim, I don't know why you made so much assumpition on my ebooks and my paper on wcks. All of them, just my research and personal studies, and I just brought it out to the public. I NEVER NEVER insist they are concluded and definitely truth in the paper. It is academic research only. you can see all my Mun documents stilll maintain all old stories from our Mun. No one can change it at this moment. If I change any of my Mun matters, our mun will make a public announcement. The ebook and the paper last years I published is based on the view of emei. Do you see any of my papers based on the view from White Crane only, and others before ? The papers are for the academic research only. I never conclude anything, and the term, 'maybe' I am using only. All just for my personal studies and share to the public ONLY. No other means, please don't twist my initial objective.

1. I don't understand why you insist to convince the created story of yours. As others asking here, you need to proof with evidence. Not just one GM Fu said then you can conclude. GM Lee Kong without showing any conclusion in the lunch meeting with Sergio, but Hendrik made GM Lee wordings himself and lied to all of us. I think all you need to understand, without any solid proofing with evidence, time, location, based on what to emege, you cannot make any assupmtion they are from merging emei and white crane. In the court, if someone is prosecuted, they need to take all evidence out to prove. In the past, you are strongly recommended your Pin Sun WCK, but today, you twisted your lineage and going to this imagined one.

All the articles I published in Chinese in the past 4 years are for academic researching and viewing only, they have not concluded anythings. Jim, using your mind, please don't see the wordings in the paper, and take those wording, then twisting the meaning and make any conclusion on someone. All people here saw a lot your sifu Hendrik how to twist the wordsing, meaning, even changing the kuits (not only SCWC kuit, but also his kuits) openly in the public. Fortunately, I saw that, otherwise, all in the world being cheated.

2. If you don't understand the full story of someone, please don't take any from other source partially, then put it here. If you like to know something happened, come to Hong Kong, and read all and understand all. Please don't behave like that taking someone postings, bringing it here , and shouted loudly. Do you know the whole story? Are you profession ? What do you behave ? Really talking to an Idixt. From this emei and wck research, of course, we know you are not professional. You look like Hendrik to twist the words to suit what you like to present. As a profession writer in WCI, how come you can behave like a kid, and playing a kid game here.

3. Even your assumptions and what you said, are truth, how do you prove that. If you understand the historic background in the China in the last 500 years, you should know most people in China not educated, only a bit they could study. No any writtten documents to prove any of your assumptions and what you said. Even this point you are not aware, how good quality grade level of your research. you and Hendrik, without any further studies or going to find more, then everyday in the KFO, SEA, China forums, Kungfuboards in HK,HK and Taiwan wck forums to convince people, to repeat all your stuff, to talk the same stories, the same theories, the same things DAILY. Today, people need you to prove, just prove them, not all the time saying I find it from emei, and white crane. GM Fu signed it. GM Lee acknowledge. GM Lee told me that he just had a casual lunch with Sergio and Sunny only in the Fast Food store. However, people need you to show. Understand ?

4. Hendrik, he said he never related any SCWC with him, however, few days ago, he repeatedly use the SCWC kuit with his ykwc kuit to present something to convince Tai wan people in TaiWan wck forums. All here should recall, I caught him changing my kuit from 麟 to 鱗 to suit his emei snake. His 6 bows to 7 bows. Of course, we never know whether he changed his kuit with emei before bringing out to the public, then today, make his findings with emei as the parental sourcce.

5. Jim, who told you I was not the member of SCWC Mun, from where you know that. If I left my mun, do I need to make a public announcement and desinaged one to replace me to public. You help to rumour me here. YOu need to birng out any evidence. Hope Gene Ching you can handle this guy.

6. As I told Hendrik with my previous posting, responsing to his twisting words games about Ku, I have no interest to his emei game anymore, wasting time. He can twist, change, make ..... all his emei, not my business, but not dealing any thing more with me. Jim Roselando, as your email mentioned that you like wck only, no interest in any political games, but now you started the game, don't play any twisting words games any more with me, More, please bear your fuxxing mind that I never ask you to offer me to write in your WCI, but you had asked me to submit your fuxxing paper in New Martial Hero, and requested me giving you soft copy of the printed one. You still remember, as what you said, all chopped in your email to me. Don't twist any wordings to suit YOUR OWN PURPOSE. In the future, I think your Pin Sun family will request you reason, not promoting PinSun, but Emei.

[ccwayne]

Emei guys like to make their findings without any proof and to announce to public. Jim, I don't know why you made so much assumpition on my ebooks and my paper on wcks. All of them, just my research and personal studies, and I just brought it out to the public. I NEVER NEVER insist they are concluded and definitely truth in the paper. It is academic research only. you can see all my Mun documents stilll maintain all old stories from our Mun. No one can change it at this moment. If I change any of my Mun matters, our mun will make a public announcement. The ebook and the paper last years I published is based on the view of emei. Do you see any of my papers based on the view from White Crane only, and others before ? The papers are for the academic research only. I never conclude anything, and the term, 'maybe' I am using only. All just for my personal studies and share to the public ONLY. No other means, please don't twist my initial objective.

1. I don't understand why you insist to convince the created story of yours. As others asking here, you need to proof with evidence. Not just one GM Fu said then you can conclude. GM Lee Kong without showing any conclusion in the lunch meeting with Sergio, but Hendrik made GM Lee wordings himself and lied to all of us. I think all you need to understand, without any solid proofing with evidence, time, location, based on what to emege, you cannot make any assupmtion they are from merging emei and white crane. In the court, if someone is prosecuted, they need to take all evidence out to prove. In the past, you are strongly recommended your Pin Sun WCK, but today, you twisted your lineage and going to this imagined one.

All the articles I published in Chinese in the past 4 years are for academic researching and viewing only, they have not concluded anythings. Jim, using your mind, please don't see the wordings in the paper, and take those wording, then twisting the meaning and make any conclusion on someone. All people here saw a lot your sifu Hendrik how to twist the wordsing, meaning, even changing the kuits (not only SCWC kuit, but also his kuits) openly in the public. Fortunately, I saw that, otherwise, all in the world being cheated.

2. If you don't understand the full story of someone, please don't take any from other source partially, then put it here. If you like to know something happened, come to Hong Kong, and read all and understand all. Please don't behave like that taking someone postings, bringing it here , and shouted loudly. Do you know the whole story? Are you profession ? What do you behave ? Really talking to an Idixt. From this emei and wck research, of course, we know you are not professional. You look like Hendrik to twist the words to suit what you like to present. As a profession writer in WCI, how come you can behave like a kid, and playing a kid game here.

3. Even your assumptions and what you said, are truth, how do you prove that. If you understand the historic background in the China in the last 500 years, you should know most people in China not educated, only a bit they could study. No any writtten documents to prove any of your assumptions and what you said. Even this point you are not aware, how good quality grade level of your research. you and Hendrik, without any further studies or going to find more, then everyday in the KFO, SEA, China forums, Kungfuboards in HK,HK and Taiwan wck forums to convince people, to repeat all your stuff, to talk the same stories, the same theories, the same things DAILY. Today, people need you to prove, just prove them, not all the time saying I find it from emei, and white crane. GM Fu signed it. GM Lee acknowledge. GM Lee told me that he just had a casual lunch with Sergio and Sunny only in the Fast Food store. However, people need you to show. Understand ?

4. Hendrik, he said he never related any SCWC with him, however, few days ago, he repeatedly use the SCWC kuit with his ykwc kuit to present something to convince Tai wan people in TaiWan wck forums. All here should recall, I caught him changing my kuit from 麟 to 鱗 to suit his emei snake. His 6 bows to 7 bows. Of course, we never know whether he changed his kuit with emei before bringing out to the public, then today, make his findings with emei as the parental sourcce.

5. Jim, who told you I was not the member of SCWC Mun, from where you know that. If I left my mun, do I need to make a public announcement and desinaged one to replace me to public. You help to rumour me here. YOu need to birng out any evidence. Hope Gene Ching you can handle this guy.

6. As I told Hendrik with my previous posting, responsing to his twisting words games about Ku, I have no interest to his emei game anymore, wasting time. He can twist, change, make ..... all his emei, not my business, but not dealing any thing more with me. Jim Roselando, as your email mentioned that you like wck only, no interest in any political games, but now you started the game, don't play any twisting words games any more with me, More, please bear your fuxxing mind that I never ask you to offer me to write in your WCI, but you had asked me to submit your fuxxing paper in New Martial Hero, and requested me giving you soft copy of the printed one. You still remember, as what you said, all chopped in your email to me. Don't twist any wordings to suit YOUR OWN PURPOSE. In the future, I think your Pin Sun family will request you reason, not promoting PinSun, but Emei.

[Hendrik]

Wayne,


I have made announcement publicly to isolate from your information , you, your mun ...etc.

You stuffs is none of my concern, I have no interest, and do not need them.


Leave me out of your issue.

Thanks!

[Minghequan]

Jim Roselando:

Hendrik feels Wing Chun is a fusion of Emei & Fujian. Wayne & Ron also believe this. They proudly display certificates stating White Crane was "one" of the parent systems of Wing Chun. Wayne writes about Wing Chun's relationship to Emei etc... Essentially, you agree with us but just want to argue for the fun of it. Pretty sad.

Jim ... it is Jim isn't it? and you are???

I've never heard of you so I cannot put much stock in what you write however I will state this:

I have nver denied a tenious connection between some asp3ects of Wing Chun with White Crane but the core essence driving White Crane is substantially different from that which your Grandmaster Henderik Santo (I assume you follow him?) states it is. In saying this I have at least taken the time (Unlike your Grandmaster Santo) to actually train in both Wing Chun and White Crane thus giving me some understanding other than reading a few essays here and there!

So I'm am not arguing that point.

What I am asking and have yet to get a straight up, simple and honest reply is:

Hendrik:

Direct Question Number 1/. First you state that one should go and study with Sergio to end the so-called "speculation" on the "technology" and then you state that one doesn't need an "expert" to prove it and that it is similar to an Iphone . Don't you feel this is a massive contradiction???

Direct Question Number 2/. Hendrik, who in White Crane, Emei and Wing Chun you have "studied" with recently in order to end the "speculation" of not knowing what your "technology" is about?

Direct Question Number 3/. In what way have you been directly exposed to White Crane & Emei?

Direct Question Number 4/. Do you train with others in Wing Chun Kuen or do you train by yourself?

Direct Question Number 5/. Do you cross hands with anyone as part of your training or is your training purely theoretical?

Seeing as you are speaking here on the behalf of your Grandmaster Hendrik Santo, perhaps you will be as so kind to directly answer these questions???

[Minghequan]

I have made announcement publicly to isolate from your information , you, your mun ...etc.

So in accordance to that written above you Hendrik are stating that you have made a public announcement to isolate (yourself ... as that is unclear) from Master Yung's information yet you were good enough to take it and use it in the first place?

[ccwayne]

Jim ... it is Jim isn't it? and you are???

I've never heard of you so I cannot put much stock in what you write however I will state this:

I have nver denied a tenious connection between some asp3ects of Wing Chun with White Crane but the core essence driving White Crane is substantially different from that which your Grandmaster Henderik Santo (I assume you follow him?) states it is. In saying this I have at least taken the time (Unlike your Grandmaster Santo) to actually train in both Wing Chun and White Crane thus giving me some understanding other than reading a few essays here and there!

So I'm am not arguing that point.

What I am asking and have yet to get a straight up, simple and honest reply is:

Hendrik:

Direct Question Number 1/. First you state that one should go and study with Sergio to end the so-called "speculation" on the "technology" and then you state that one doesn't need an "expert" to prove it and that it is similar to an Iphone . Don't you feel this is a massive contradiction???

Direct Question Number 2/. Hendrik, who in White Crane, Emei and Wing Chun you have "studied" with recently in order to end the "speculation" of not knowing what your "technology" is about?

Direct Question Number 3/. In what way have you been directly exposed to White Crane & Emei?

Direct Question Number 4/. Do you train with others in Wing Chun Kuen or do you train by yourself?

Direct Question Number 5/. Do you cross hands with anyone as part of your training or is your training purely theoretical?

Seeing as you are speaking here on the behalf of your Grandmaster Hendrik Santo, perhaps you will be as so kind to directly answer these questions???

Yes, Ron, JR is the sole representative of Pin Sun Wing Chun in America. Today, just after Fung Chun passed away, he seems betraying Pin Sun wck and going to promote and teach Emei & ykwc in high profile now. I believe Pin Sun Wing Chun in China should have the right to know what their representative in the West. HS had told me in FB and emails that he is his only student.

More, I thnk I need to consider Jim research ability. Someone post something in the kungfuboard (it is in Chinese only, who asked him to do and brought it here) in Hong Kong rekated to me. He didn't know the whole story and made assuumption on me, and saying me I left my mun already. Hahaha... How come we trust this fool guy, anyone said without any proof, he jumped to the conclusion and posted here above. Similar case on GM Fu signatures, he is happy and make conclusion on it. Is it professional approach ? Of course not. Being a researcher, until you have all evidence, all proof, and all are solid,tehn you can conclude, and publish as a Journals. otherwise, just a general discussion, a common paper only.

Finally, Jim, don't twist someone writing to make/build your own story ?

[zuti car]

So in accordance to that written above you Hendrik are stating that you have made a public announcement to isolate (yourself ... as that is unclear) from Master Yung's information yet you were good enough to take it and use it in the first place?

Good old Hendrik

[Hendrik]

So in accordance to that written above you Hendrik are stating that you have made a public announcement to isolate (yourself ... as that is unclear) from Master Yung's information yet you were good enough to take it and use it in the first place?

Thanks but no thanks, I really don't need Wayne Yung information for my Wck practice (as anyone can compare my art from youtube with Wayne's school YouTube and see the big different for themself), And have never touched it since my public isolation announcement from all of Wayne information.



As now, we know in public forum and facebook of Hong Kong , by evidence of Wayne own email,
https://m.facebook.com/waikeung.mok....44812792358779

Wayne Yung had denounced his sifu in 2011 and no longer a SCWC , and there are many SCWC sifus not just Wayne Yung.

As wherether if Wayne is still a SCWC, or a represent of SCWC , spoke person, or his own version of SCWC create by his own .

I leave them to sort out their issue themself, with respect, I isolate myself from it.





Btw. Wayne had posting on behalf of SCWC mun, and Moduk ....etc In this forum.
I feel sad to read the above Facebook link with email Wayne denounce his sifu.
It is certainly by evidence , Wayne preach one thing and practice another toward his sifu and SCWC Mun.




So, With respect, please leave me out of Wayne Yung issue here on.