AC: What was the camera platform or format, and why did you make those choices for this material?
NK: We primarily shot action in a telephoto/long-focus lens. We take dialogue in close-ups.
We filmed [using the] Alexa XT Plus. Filming took place from November to January, and it was mostly day-scenes as opposed to night filming. The days were short during this period in terms of hours of sunlight. Therefore, higher sensitivity was better, so with Alexa, 800 or 1600 [ISO], there were absolutely no problems. I love film itself, but considering all of the conditions, digital worked better for even the afternoons. We used digital because it is easier to adjust to the various problems.
In winter, the color temperature changes, and even if the human eye has no problems, it turns the whole thing blue. Fixing that on film is a big task. Miike’s works are exclusively shot digitally now. There is no question that Alexa is a good camera. [In terms of dailies], once we finished shooting, we backed it up, put it in the lab, and from the lab, we sent it to the departments through an iPad. At that stage, it is sent without any correction/edits and we send it raw. There is no audio — just images.
On right, director Miike confers with Sugisaki, Kimura and Kita.
AC: What was your approach to lenses on this picture and the tools you utilized?
NK: In general, we use [fixed focal length] prime lenses. I just really like prime lenses, including their sharpness. We primarily use the Cooke S4 series. The lens itself has contrast and is thus a little soft. Newer lenses these days are too crisp in their pursuit of sharpness. There’s no texture, there’s no taste. In our job, we want to erase what we don’t want to show and when the sharpness is too much, too much is seen and there is no way to erase that. There might be a trend toward sharpness right now, but I don’t like those kinds of lenses. I will continue to use the Cooke S4. [They used lenses that ran from] 14mm to about 150mm. I have about 10 of those, and with that many, [any type of] shooting is covered. I think the film itself is ruined if it is too clear because we are shooting fiction. To what degree should sharpness be diminished? That is the direction of fiction. But I want [the audience] to see what cannot be seen. Our job is also to depict what is outside the frame. Even if it is not in the picture, there are things we want to convey to the audience.
AC: What was your lighting aesthetic for the film? It appeared to me the movie was told almost in chapters, following some of the books. Did the lighting approach and aesthetic evolve or change depending on what section of the movie we were in?
NK: We didn’t specifically seek out the [chapter-like] changes. If in the end that was what was perceived, then we appreciate that. We weren’t conscious of it. In terms of light, we use angles or color according to how it should be done for that scene. We search for the best match. Maybe Miike-san uses lighting rather than linking scenes together to make the scenes funnier or cooler to make the film better.
For example, I, myself, don’t think the movie flows if one scene is sunny and the next is cloudy. But it is uninteresting being tied up like that. When linking scenes, it is not about focusing on constructing the light, but rather, figuring out how to make the scene more fun for the audience — how to make it more enjoyable. I think it is better to think in that way. We are technical people, so connecting the look of the film is important. But getting caught up in that is not fun. As long as the tension of the story is connecting, weather doesn’t matter.
Quite a while back, a director named Yoshimitsu Morita [who worked with Kita on the films Copycat Killer and Like Asura] told me, “Connect the story before weather.” As long as the tension of the story is connected, the movie will somehow connect. Miike-san also focuses on the flow of tension.
Light and contrast is utilized to maximize the portrayal of the scene — that’s it. We used HMIs, but you can ask the lighting designer about that [laughs]. I’ve been working with [Yoshimi Watabe], the lighting designer, for longer than [I’ve been working with] Miike-san. But, in general, I have a stronger desire for wanting proper contrast. As long as you create contrast, the others fall into place. In terms of light, we don’t add it with the DI; we pull it out later.
AC: What was your primary method of moving the camera on this project, and why was that particular methodology chosen?
NK: For the most part, we only have a camera dolly. The Director doesn’t use Steadicams. We use handheld cameras or dollies. Cranes are rarely used in period films. I feel like moving the crane in a tricky way shifts the world of the film. [There is a scene where] Manji is below a bridge and [his foe] Anotsu [played by Sôta Fukushi] is above. We used a crane to show that in a frame from bottom to top, but it was only because we needed to show the scene that we used the crane. I think it is better to not shoot in the easiest way possible. It might turn into a rich scene, but is that really necessary for the scene? Isn’t it more fun to film in a challenging way?
I think the Steadicam is machine-like. Handheld can allow you to be more emotional. [While operating,] reactions to the sensations are possible — I can even respond to any troubles that could occur.
AC: Please discuss how you shot the spectacular opening battle in black-and-white, which introduces Manji and how he became an immortal warrior. Why black-and-white there, and what was your philosophy about the use of color on this project?
NK: At first, the Director had a sort of sepia color template in mind for the beginning scenes. If it were up to me, I thought black-and-white was definitely better. Considering the backdrop of the period piece, it always seems that low saturation is used, so green or brown. So perhaps going for black-and-white would have a bigger impact when the scene changes to color. The contrast would also stand out.
In expressing the contrast protagonist’s way of life, I thought black-and-white was perhaps better. When the Director asked me, “Which is better?” upon showing me the sepia and black-and-white, I responded, “Maybe the black-and-white is better.” The Director said, “In black-and-white, I want to see more of the story.” With that, the editing points become later than usual.
In fact, I wanted to make the [Japan distributor Warner Bros.’ logo] black-and-white as well. But, apparently, approval for that is granted to only [movies that are entirely black-and-white]. It’s a shame, because if it was also monochrome, it would have been so much cooler [laughs]. The echo of the first katana [a Samurai sword] would have been different, too. We kept the monochrome rigid. Showing the dark parts dark makes it more like black-and-white. Parts you can’t see don’t need to be seen. For example, Clint Eastwood films have lots of parts that you can’t see. But I think that is good. During 13 Assassins, I asked “Director, it’s alright if we do it like [Eastwood’s] Unforgiven, right? The parts we can’t see can’t be seen.” In the parts that can’t be seen, the audience’s imagination is stimulated. I think that is more cinematic.
In terms of color, in general, I think color needs not to be saturated [for this type of film]. Period films rarely have backdrops that are saturated. As long as [actress Hana Sugisaki’s character] Rin-chan’s red costume stands out, we were good — just as long as that catches your eye. We took care to do that. Kind of like Zhang Yimou’s [1999 film] The Road Home. We wanted to keep Rin lovely. We wanted a purposeful clarity with that red — very direct, a beautiful woman standing among filthy men. We calculated the color with that in mind. Other than that, we probably upped the saturation for [actress] Erika Toda’s street work scene [as the character Makie]. For everything else, we lowered the saturation and we had a direction toward establishing contrast.
In general, I think there is no purpose in doing tests for action. Besides having a basic choreography for the sword fights, I don’t think there should be tests. Testing lowers the actors’ energy and movements during the actual shooting might be completely different. If you test, then they will try to re-create the movements, and they won’t respond to the live action. Actors are nama-mono [“easily perishable foods”], especially in acting, where the timing and breathing changes the spacing and pace. That is why we shoot as if it were live.
For action, we shoot with two cameras, different angles, in-and-out. For Takuya Kimura, Manji’s energy comes through the camera, so shooting was fun and uplifting. As a filmmaker, I’ve used my luck on him. This guy is amazing. I hope this is conveyed to the audience. While shooting, our energy rivals Kimura-san’s incredible energy. I think that’s [what makes it work].
For monochrome, we raised the sensitivity, played with the temperature, created contrast on the digital intermediate. It’s basically like working with silver retention on film.