This sucks! Restrictive rules for competition in UFC

[Braden]

God knows I don't want to get dragged into this argument again, but since no one else ever makes this point...

The reason less rules doesn't make a tournament closer to real life is because the important differences between tournament fighting and real fighting have NOTHING to do with what the fouls are.

The entire evolution of conflict is entirely different (in many ways, the exact opposite) in tournaments as in real life. This has to do with mental aspects, physicals aspects, the way range changes, the way direction is used, environmental factors, etc. In your training you can maximize your performance in regards to these aspects for tournaments, or you can do it for reality. There are some important technical differences for each case. This does not change in the 'tournament case' if you alter the fouls.

Tournament-style fighting is incredibly useful at testing and training certain aspects of your real fighting game. Like doing bench-presses if you're a shotlifter. However, it would be a grave mistake to believe by altering the weight on the barbell, or where you grip it, or how low you go, or how fast you move that you can turn the bench press into a shotput. Same deal here.

[Archangel]

Whats up. I noticed you're from Canada, how was your thanksgiving.

God know we've gone back and for on this subject, hell one more time won't hurt.

Lets take the two extremes here, MMA and lets say TKD point sparring. You honestly cannot see the advantages of a MMA tournament over point sparring. Yes your mentality and your environmental awareness plays a huge part in the outcome of a fight (probably the biggest factor) but let us not discount the completeness of your arsenal or your ability to fight within striking, wrestling and groundfighting.

Unless you carry a gun, they will come into play and the person who has experience dealing with a takedown, dealing with heavy strikes, dealing with the ground and dealing with a 100% resisting oponent will have an advantage. That means the MMA fighter will have the advantage.

As far as the shot put analogy goes. I'm willing to bet that they guy who trains his bench press, military press, power clean, squat and puts his reps on the field (MMA guy), will do better than the guy who only does only a few of the excersises.

[Knifefighter]

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However, it would be a grave mistake to believe by altering the weight on the barbell, or where you grip it, or how low you go, or how fast you move that you can turn the bench press into a shotput.
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Actually, the basic principles of exercise science demand that you do alter those things in strength/power exercises depending on the activity for which you are training and they do make a difference to how you perform in that specific event.

[Braden]

kf - I agree completely. I think you missed the point. Although that could very well be my fault.

Arch - I agree completely with what you said. You have to have full contact blows, honestly resisting opponents, etc. I guess I'm trying to emphasize more the value of more goal-specific tournament-style fighting methods. Like grappling-only, standing-only, etc, as well as other situational training methods. But like you suggested, if you're not actually hitting each other, etc, there's going to be problems.

Thanksgiving was good. My girlfriend is in town for a couple months. That makes anything good.

[wolfkiller]

mma competitions still doesn't approximate reality more than other combat sports because they are allowing a set of techniques( groundfighting) but not allowing another set of techniques which are effective against groundfighting like kicking an opponent while he's down. or holding on to the fence or running away as much as you want.

just my two cents.

[Black Jack]

Just for the record, if the current commerical venues, UFC, Pride, San Shou and so forth have to many limiting rules for a kung fu stylist their are other more grass roots non-commerical events for a person to partake in if they wanted to test out their skills.

I have heard you can find fighters in other countries like Mexico, South America, Thailand, Burma, Laos, Russia, and the Middle East, that will handle your "no-rules" matches.

In Burma they have Thaing matches, real no rule fights, eye gouges, headbutts, whatever.

A buddy of mine, a 7 Star guy in Point Loma, San Diego, has attended and watched a number of all you got street matches in after hours over the border dance clubs, even in our major cities their might be found underground street fight nights , cage matches, and what have you.

If that is even a problem, and you are really serious, go find a way to arrange a private fight with a boxer from the innercity, or even a street thug, or see if anybody from a real biker club like the Outlaws, Hells Angles, Banditos or Pagans will give you a match to test your skills for some cash and brews.

All I am trying to say is that if you want a real no-rules match and what you see out their is to limiting for your tastes, with effort and creativity, something can be arranged.

Whats the difference if its a public venue or not, that matters for nothing, I thought to you guys this was about testing your skills.

Just thoughts,

[wolfkiller]

those private fights ought to be fun to watch but not to partake in.

by the way have any kung fu practitioners participated inthe k-1 or pride competitions?

[Leonidas]

I think some hardcore Martial Artist would love to participate in a street fight. They wouldn't like the possiblilty of being shot, stabbed and or pummeled to death afterwards, win or lose.

[respectmankind]

grappling is more safe, you can be shown an armbar, or even demonstarted on at full force and you won't get hurt because of control, can you cay the same about a throat shot? I would say looking at UFC and thinking it is proof grappling is more effective is BS, but in a ring fight it is more appropriate because of the safety each person deserves.

[taijiquan_student]

Even though I think some strikers have criticicized the UFC's rules as an excuse for not knowing how to deal with grappling, reading the rules, it is obvious and clear that a fighter who primarily strikes is at a very large disadvantage.

[fightfan]

Black Jack is correct! Brazilian vale tudo competitions only have a couple of rules and they get broken all the time! The ref seems to be there just for show. I just got a event called Bloody Manaus and they dont even use gloves!
One things for sure, no matter what style the fighter fights under, they all know their stuff on the ground. Why? Simple. Because if they dont, they lose!

[Merryprankster]

Some good points here...

Can I suggest something? The majority of the techniques-clavical pulls, pressure points, etc, are more useful in the grappling range than any other.

I might also point out that headbutts, knees to the head of a downed opponent, elbows to a downed opponent, etc, are FAR more effective, and in some cases, only possible when you are on TOP.

If we're using a rules favor grapplers arguement, then the above doesn't fly.

Who, percentage wise, is more likely to be on top, the "grappler" or the "striker"? Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr rue the day headbutts were made illegal, along with knees to the head, elbows to the head of a downed opponent, etc.

I agree that elbows to the spine and back of the head should be allowed. If for no other reason than to demonstrate that they are low percentage defenses to a shot. I'm sure many here will disagree with me, but the truth is that knocking people out isn't THAT simple, and if the guy is shooting, you'd better knock him out with the first couple of shots because you aren't going to get any more. That doesn't mean it can't work... just that it's low percentage.

I don't say these things to suggest that "strikers," have it better, but to suggest that the rules were about even.

I think they've tried to be fair with the rules.

I also don't think it's reality--but it's the closest legal venue available--the best test of skills for people who don't want to go out and fight in the exceptionally illegal environment of the streets and get shot.

[jimmy23]

I cant belive that I have to make this point again, but Brazillain Vale Tudo matches have been going on for 75 years, and with only two rules -no biting, no eye gouging- and grapplers have dominated there.

[Merryprankster]

Jimmy--preaching to the choir man! Everytime restrictive rules are mentioned as the reason that "x" doesn't do well in UFC type events, I point to brazil vale tudo and russian events...

If somebody REALLY wants an event where techniques are practically not restricted at all, then those venues suffice.

I do believe that Braden is correct that ring success does not translate to street success.

The ring is a good indication of fighting skill... but self-defense covers situational awareness and other sorts of things.

As before, the ring is not the street.. but neither is the kwoon....

[jimmy23]

good points, the street is a different animal. But, MMA training combined with awareness is, IMO, better than static , no contact training with street awareness.