Article on JKD

[Merryprankster]

Sensei,

If your intent was to open the minds of traditional practicioners you've failed rather miserably. The wording is confrontational and smacks of the "SEE!!! My Style's got it RIGHT." Even your response as to the intent of this article does that in the first sentence that really gets to the meat of the issue:

The article was to open the minds of the closed traditional styles.

Instant turn-off #1--


Then you proceed to say:

I am not stating that JKF is superior, only in its concepts if you truly understand them.

Instant turn-off #2--

As far as Katas are concerned, I feel "fixed" forms are great for meditation purposes, however, free form has the best advantages. (Personal opionion). I am speaking from many street confrontations I have personally been involved in through my years of professions. This is not mere theories or maybes.

Instant turn-off #3-- I might also add that anybody out there says the same thing about it "not being mere theories or maybes," when it comes to their art. The problem is that you don't make your response "you specific." This would be important ESPECIALLY if JKD is about finding what works for you.

It sounds like you've invested a great deal of yourself in the opinion--Colin Powell once remarked that it is necessary to ensure that you don't identify so closely with it, that if it is attacked, you feel attacked too.

Common problem in MA's Anywhere really.

[Merryprankster]

Many readers searching on the subject of "Jeet Kune Do" are probably looking for the secret that does not exist to achieve mastering the "Way." Many articles have been written on this subject and I am sure it will continue, as long as readers are willing to keep searching for the "all knowing" and yet, not understanding anything they are searching for in "Jeet Kune Do"!

I have been studying the martial arts for thirty-three years and was just as perplexed as many readers today. I received my first black belt in kung-fu when I was seventeen years old. I then enlisted in the Army and earned my black belt in Tae Kwon Do in Korea. Upon returning to the States, I studied Kenpo Karate in Santa Barbara with Rick Avery, Chris Weidman and **** Willet.

I was always fascinated with Bruce Lee and his way of self-defense that he portrayed in his movies. He was graceful, with simplicity and directness. At that time, I could not actually put my finger on why he was so enticing in his movies. I always felt that he understood something that I had not been exposed to in my training, and that he expressed this understanding by fighting in a way that was uniquely “his.”

I read many books on Bruce Lee's concepts and his philosophies of Jeet Kune Do. I practiced diligently, trying to imitate his moves and techniques . Of course, this led to nowhere but being more confused. It wasn't until many years later that I read in-depth Lee's concepts of the art and the philosophies of yin and yang as it pertained to the martial arts, that I finally got it. I began to look to myself for creativity and self-expression, keeping everything simple and direct. I learned that we are all different and that we are all talented in our own way. Therefore, we must discover, know and express ourselves to understand that all things change and we must also. Even then, with this one concept in mind, it took me several years to break the habits I had ingrained during my training.

I have been teaching for thirty years, and in that time have come up with some thoughts on today's Jeet Kune Do.

Katas
Through the many years of training in Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo I was taught so many katas, that even today I have trouble remembering some of them. There is a tremendous focus on learning forms and katas in many schools—so much so that for many, doing techniques “the way it is in the form” becomes far more important than “the technique worked.” Consequently, I don’t teach kata. Concepts and techniques are developed through simple repetition to reach the subconscious. Live drills are executed, and then (hopefully—every person is different!) integrated by the student into their own fighting style.


Intercepting
This is really the true art of Jeet Kune Do. Intercepting your opponent by way of jamming, feints and attacks. There is nothing better than an opponent who becomes unsure and confused in his action. There should be no thought of action, only action itself. A hit should hit all by itself.

Traditional Styles
Jeet Kune Do allowed me to open up my training and personalize my style. In each given fight, no one knows how an opponent's body position or placement will be. One must react to the given opening without delay, attacking using whatever will work, be it a technique that was taught or a spontaneous expression that seemed to be “the right thing at that time.” To express yourself, you need to become like a tree: a good root and trunk with branches and leaves that blow in the wind. Towards this end I teach (whatever structure it is you have at your school) to develop their core fighting skills and use (whatever it is you use—I imagine lots of free sparring) to encourage students to develop their own style.

Training
Students today only train during their schedule class times. This is not enough. To become very good at something, one must train on a daily basis. It amazes me how the majority of black belts today are only purple belts of yesteryear. This is due to lack of proper training and exercise. (personally, I think this is bunk, but if you like it run with it.)

Belts
I do agree with the belt system in the martial arts. Many have criticized me because I have implemented a belt system in my teachings of Jeet Kune Do. However, many new students have no foundation of the martial arts and need to start somewhere. In America, all traditional styles and competition are based upon the belt system. Even Bruce Lee had a rating system that was equivalent to the belt system. Each student must prove himself worthy of promotion and should have the highest respect for its meaning within its own interpretation of school. My students do compete in tournaments in Southern California and all tournaments I have personally competed in have a rating systems by belt color.

Sparring Contact
In Jeet Kune Do, students spar with full contact gear with maximum effort. Sparring includes but is not limited to: kicks, hits, feints, draws, jamming, trapping, parries, timing, distance acknowledgement, grappling, take-downs, ground technique and self-expression. To become a great fighter, one must be trained in all aspects of contact. Any school one chooses should have time set aside for full contact free-sparring. If it doesn’t, and personal defense is the aim, leave immediately and don’t go back

My advice for the martial arts student:
· First, find a good instructor. Make sure your instructor has an open mind for change.
· Train everyday if possible. If not, then every other day!
· Read and study other arts. Look for simplicity and directness. Flashy is for television, not real life.
· Beware of anyone who says they have all the answers or they are masters in their art. You will also be just as limited as them.
· Grow continuously by creative self-expression in technique and understanding that all things change.
· Remember, there is no such thing as one technique that will work in any given situation. Every person is different and reacts differently.
· Become comfortable with grappling techniques. Most fights will end with someone putting their hands on you.
· Learn to intercept your opponent. There is nothing else that will make your strike more powerful than your opponent’s opposing force.
· Become one with your opponent, think of yourself as a cup in this relationship. A cup without a handle is just a bowl and a handle without a bowl is nothing!
· All strikes should be made from the hip. (you need to clarify what you mean here—it’s unclear if you mean they should be CHAMBERED at the hip (clearly not) or “spontaneously—without a preset ending “technique,” in mind)
· Art, after all, is a means of acquiring "personal" liberty. Your way is not my way, nor mine yours.
· Evaluation by others should not be a guide for you. (then why institute a belt system? Contradictory evidence. Rethink or clarify the statement.)
· Do not ever start a battle with a set plan, this would be fatal.
· Make your parry and strike as one. Keep your parry movements small, so to have your opponent’s strike just miss its target.
· One can only be free if he is unconcerned with the “proper response.”.
· A feint cannot be effective unless it forces your opponent to move.
· Between two evenly matched fighters, the fighter that leads is at a disadvantage. The fighter that counters has the advantage. (maybe.)
· Do not worry about the outcome of a sparring match, it will take care of itself.
· Eighty percent of defense is counter attack in Jeet Kune Do. In Jeet Kune Do feints and draws are not direct attacks. It does assist our opponent to directly attack.
· Mechanical fighters are easy prey.
· Truth is outside any set style or patterns.
· Know yourself!


Here-I had nothing better to do today, so I had the arrogance and temerity to rework your article. I think it makes the same points without being as dismissive of traditional arts--you won't win any converts that way. However, I will say that the content still isn't going to convince anybody in a traditional style because they've heard it all before.

[Sensei Kunz]

It is obvious that many things need to be repeated because people have a tendency to hear but not to absorb. It seems that you both are secure in your ways, may you continue on in good health. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Even after 33 yrs. I am still learning. All I asked was for an open mind, which is not apparent in a few replies. I did not intend to attack, only to provke thought and reaction. I wouold be very interested in knowing what styles you do learn under, this may provide some light on your responses.

Sensei Kunz

[Merryprankster]

Brazilian Jiujitsu, Boxing, and Wrestling. Every now and again I'll train with some MT guys.

[rogue]

My main art is a varient of old school TKD. I'm also studying Isshinryu as time allows. In the past I've taken JKD, Muay Thai some BJJ and JJJ.

I do have an open mind and that's why I ended up with going to classical arts. I'm not saying your experience with them is wrong but different from mine.

Don't take what MP and I have written the wrong way David, we're just being candid. If we were off base just point out where, maybe it's just a misunderstanding.

Question, how much of your traditional styles work enters into your JKD? Some of your techniques on your site are very close to what I do in TKD and Isshinryu.

Hope you get better soon.

[Sensei Kunz]

I want to thank you for your concern, it is appreciated! It is obvious that you both are well trained in cross training, which I find extraodinary. My hat is off to you.

You will find that most JKD instructors have had training in the traditional or classical styles prior to their JKD crossing. We all bring in our own individuality with JKD. Maybe this is why so many cannot agree in the JKD realm. LOL!

The reason for some other techniques are being shown on my website from TKD, Kenpo and Sei-King Gung-Fu is that I teach a lot of children. I cannot teach out straight JKD to them, they are not mentally or responsible of that kind of training. I teach them a combination of three traditional styles that I personally feel will ease them into JKD at a later age if their commitment is strong enough for the enderance of time. You will see some straight JKD techniques which I will only teach to teenagers above 15 to adult. Then again, I don''t teach everything. Some people you will come across cannot be trusted with certain information or techniques, if you know what I mean.

The children, approx. 200+ learn the basics of self-defense with a JKD concept for foundation in self-expression. They absorb what is useful and discard what is not. Not everyone of us can fight the same. Nobody wants to be a robot! We are all built differently and cannot all do the same thing as well as another. It is best that we learn what are talents or abilities allow and train them to perfection.

For expample, if I came upon an opponent that had better boxing skills than I, then I would either keephim at kicking distance at the knees of course, or trapping by immobilization into grappling or take-downs and ground works. I would let my opponent choose the way I fight rather than just fight with what I know. this brings us to the intelligent fighter!

I want to thank you both for your fast responses!

By the way, I am not offended by any of your comments. If we all agreed, then what a boring world this would be! It is always great to agree to disagree! How else can we learn from one another?

Your Servant

Sensei Kunz

[Merryprankster]

Hey sensei--no problem man!

Personally, I agree with your conclusion more than I don't. My only "offering," was perhaps a different way to phrase the conclusion--when you try to create positive interest in something, the surest way to ensure you DON'T is by saying something like "traditional systems have no place in combat."

Well, that might be true (rhetorically folks, don't get your panties in a bunch!!!)--but the people who have done them have just as much invested in those systems as you do in "no system," so they get defensive. When you've got somebody on the defensive, they aren't listening.

That's all I was trying to say

[DelicateSound]

Sensei Kunz just hit the brick wall of argument that is Merryprankster


I've just read the article and every post here guys - and nice thread.


SK: I liked the article, but do hold pretty much every view put forward by MPS and Rogue. I do feel that this stuff has been said before - but maybe not in such an indepth way. I've read a lot of this stuff but still found it a good-read.



I guess that's a first as I've always had an overall gripe with JKD, not in its "concepts" form of absorbing what is useful, but in its often stoic defense of its principles and defiance of sometimes different viewpoints.

Having said that, your training does seem far better than the JKD I have seen, which always appears patchy in a horrible "jack-of-all-trades" way.

They have a hard time talking straight because they haven't/can't define JKD.

So true. Not to knock Bruce Lee in any way but JKD seems to me to be a really personal thing. The Universal message of individual style is there, but only one man knew what the hell he was talking about!




But yep, I liked it Sensei Kunz. It won't change my life, or my vehement wish to study purely Wing Chun, but it's a good read, and an example of overview and perspective at its best. And I'm a Judo/Lau-Gar man.



[read all of that in the least patronising voice you can. I didn't mean it, but I'm not re-editing, so put-up and shut-up the lot of you]

[Sensei Kunz]

Yes, it has been a great discussion point on a variety of views and ideas.

I see one of the major problems with JKD today is the bickering amoung its own. However, this is happening in many other arts without naming them.

If we could just converse and look at all aspects and view points and the experiences of others as brothers in the arts, then we might have a beginning.

I am not sure about the comment of hitting a brick wall, but an open discussion of what is personal and important to each of us in our path of the arts and understanding of ourselves.

My article was also mainly based on what I have seen in the majority of arts today. I was in heavy competition back in the 70's and 80's. Protective gear was virtually unknown at that time. The competition I faced was great. Recently I attended four outside open tournaments and many styles attended, this was within the last year. Most competitors were for Kata and very few were competing in kumite and the ones that did, could not believe the quality of their so-called black belts. I competed in all four and placed first. I am not boasting here mind you, it was just a shock that there was little competition that use to be so fluid and rampant back in my earlier days. I have not competed since.

The article was also a draw of the quality of the martial artist today and if it was as bad as first thought. I was alos hoping that it would enlighten a few who happen to be receiving training that was not quite up to par.

It seems all the leaders and name bearers of yesteryear have gone or gone quite and the arts are running rampant in every direction. Mind you this is just an observation from my perspective only!

Please enlighten?

Your Servant

Sensei Kunz

[DelicateSound]

The "brick wall thing" I was just messin'. Little joke on here that MPS seems to be able to argue convincingly about anything. Ask him about the mechanisation of Northern England during the industrial revolution. Or visual art.


As for the standard of competitors, I put it down to the modern commercialisation of the arts. With McDojo's springing up everywhere, and kids of 5 and 6 starting Karate, people get taught watered down versions of styles with no sparring, no contact etc.


I'm sure there are still "hardcore" fighters out there, but not everyone wants to be one. I myself could never afford a broken hand - it would kill my guitar playing dead [seriously] so I'm never going to be entering into UFC#874 or whatever.


You obviously are a serious Martial Artist, it's obvious you put it very high on your list of priorities. That's good, and the arts need guys like that. However, many "black belts" are not as serious.


And those speech marks were for a reason.

[Sensei Kunz]

You are absolutly right. I have always been hardcore and didn't believe in anythnig but being all the way.

I like the term McDojos, and that is probably the ones I am referring to in my many posts.

No thanks, I don't think I want to start another conversation with a subject I know nothing about, especially New England and his history. I would get killed! LOL!

I agree that many of the arts are for the reason for health and meditation and just wanting to know the body better. there is an art for to the "fixed" techniques, they are sometimes very beautiful to watch, if done right with hard work and practice.

I think in the future, I will make remarks and establish an acknowledgement of my being hardcore and have a better understanding towards the practitioner in general.

It is my personal belief that the arts are for self-defense and must be used when necessary if the time arises. It just upsets me so, when someone has practiced under the illusion of years of training that they can defend themself in a combat street confrontation and has been led to believe this through their instructor and then boom, they are on the ground. This is where I was truly hoping to reach an audience of, as you put it, McDojo's.

I have discovered a lot during these posts and want to thank all involved. I know I can see things in a different light and not approach it in the future as a whole. It is obvious that their are still some serious martial artist here that take the arts for different purposes and are satisfied with it. That I can swallow and understand!

your Servant

Sensei Kunz

[Merryprankster]

Sensei,

You want to stop the McDojo's? Well, you can't. But there is one way that you can make "two worlds."

There's boxing workouts and then there is boxing. Nobody gets them confused. Why? Because boxers beat on each other.

Continued emphasis on sportfighting will improve MA and will provide away for somebody who really wants to kick some ass to find the right place to train.

McDojo's serve useful purposes, however

[DelicateSound]

Sensei Kunz: Don't be too hard on yourself man! I know that there's been a lot of picking through it on here, but it's still better than 98% of MA literature out there.

As for the purpose of MA's, this is a VERY mixed topic. I personally train COMPLETELY for self-defence, and so I will spar as much as possible, with as many styles as possible. I will train for a solid punch etc.

However, MA's are just part of my life. I'm a much better guitarist and so never want to risk breaking a hand. Straight away this is conflict. I can't really go to a balls-out hardcore school where broken bones are just par for the course [I have done before however] but I'm not going to go to a McDojo and learn something completely unsuitable for the street.

So when MPS says:

There's boxing workouts and then there is boxing. Nobody gets them confused. Why? Because boxers beat on each other.

...he is both right and wrong. If you get my drift. MA's are so much more varied than boxing.

I THINK I've found a perfect balance with Wing Chun. I'm not sure yet.



However, 90%+ of Martial Artists are learning sh!te. Most couldn't tell you what is and is not sh!te.

In a way I feel sad about this. In a way I know that this is the same with everything.


Maybe someone should write up on this.

[Merryprankster]

Delicate--

What I was saying is that you can create two worlds:

The McDojos--nothing wrong with them. If people are looking to feel MA-ish and needing a fun activity for the kids or to do with their familiy, then this is fine. Little to no full contact sparring

The "Not McDojos"--these guys spar. A lot. And they hurt each other sometimes. And there are real injuries. And some might step in the ring or not--but it's still a sportfighting model for the training base--that is, you spar, often and with contact, but with some rules and gear in place for safety. Nobody really wants to go at it bare-knuckle on unpadded floor all the time. Doesn't mean you can't train weapons or forms or practice meditation, but beating on each other is one of the primary training tools.

How would Judo practice have felt without the mats?

Boxing was just an example--tai chi for old people and folks who beat each other up with it might be a different example. The slow, for exercise style, has benefits, but Martial Skill isn't one of them. But if that's not their goal, then fine.

[tri2bmt]

Didn't read the article but have read the thread and all posts and I have a few things I feel were left out.
1.)When most JKD people talk about JKD and the ideas/ philsophies that are its base they tend to sound like Bruce Lee.
2.) I feel that most TMA could use the ideas and concepts of JKD in their styles to break habits they may be forming.
3.) JKD(from what I've read of Bruce Lee) is a set of concepts and ideas. There are no specific movements or attacks. It is whatever you can use and is comfortable for you. Bruce Lee developed JKD from a solid base of Wing Chun which is very noticeable in modern JKD immitaion.
That's all it is; immitation.
JKD practioners have now become the product of Bruce Lees ideas and turned them into the gospel truth. I think he'd be disgusted with the extreme imitation going on and people claiming to know or understand JKD by reciting Bruce Lee quotes and using his ideas and trying to convince themselves it's theres.
Sadly there is no liberation in either mindless JKD or TMA.
I don't hate JKD but most people are just imitating Bruce Lee.
The only good thing that ever came of JKD was the philsophy and ideas of Brcue Lee and their importance on the concept of unarmed combat.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!