Boxing an Internal art--an intellectual exercise

[Merryprankster]

Ah good---I feel much less like your b!tch since you've defined internal that way I agree 100%.

[Braden]

Remember a thread a while back where you asked why the hell people would stand around in static postures?

You comment, "Maybe that's why I'm comfortable fighting from a crouch--I have to concentrate to keep good posture myself."

Imagine a conditioning exercise which actually changes your body to naturally conform to 'good posture.' This is basically what I tried to convey on that thread, what I'm trying to convey here, and some of the overt results of which you can see in the pic I posted.

It's worth noting with respect to external/internal differences, that all practitioners of classically defined external styles which responded to your question told you I was wrong and it was for strong legs. Probably highly related; it's worth noting that their stance holding practice varies from 'ours' in several ways - such as the level of tension involved, and whether or not the 'stance' means just the legs, or various requirements for the whole body.

[Merryprankster]

Braden--I can understand that--no problem. I notice that my posture breaks down when I am tired, but when I "train myself," to maintain good posture, it's much less of an issue

[red5angel]

"What I am saying is that I do not believe what you are calling 'internal' here has anything to do with what 'internal' happens to be. I would replace the word 'internal' in this quote simply with the word 'skill.' "

Thats fine, I am just stating what I believe to be 'internal' power, or how it is defined. The labels are the problem, I dont think there is a huge difference between the two. I dont really even think that there is two types, really.

" This exact same phenomenon exists in all martial arts. In the 'classically defined' internal arts, we see it all the time. I cannot count the number of times I have heard my teacher say 'that might work, but only because you are stronger/bigger/heavier' or 'you are relying on your strength/size/weight.' It's something we wrestle with constantly; to use the SKILL of our art rather than our conditioning. And it's one of the ways training differs from usage. In training you are trying to develop skill, so you try to cut everything else out of the equation. That's one of the things that is meant be the infamous and poorly named 'cooperative' training. However, in usage, you'll still have all that skill you developed in training, and all you'll be concerned about is pounding the crap out of the guy trying to hurt you, however you can! Again, I think Kaitain aluded to this in one of his posts. "

I agree and meant to make that point but skipped over it. I do not really believe in 'internal' power as a seperate thing from external power. All arts can have it, but not all people can attain it.

"But I do not believe this has anything to do with 'internal.' I believe it is a difficult concern that practitioners of EVERY art try to balance. "

Ultimately, I dont believe that there is a disparity between internal and external that is most often implied. I get the impression, and of course this is limited to my experience, taht most people when talking about internal power are referring to some strange energy that they learn to harness. To me it is more down to earth and explainable then that.

[red5angel]

Hey MP - going along with why you would stand in static postures, I do a sort of static meditation where I basically just stand there. The only reason I do it is to reinforce "quietness" in my foundation.

[Merryprankster]

The thread he was referring to was one on holding horse stance forever and a day. I was asking what sort of benefit this created

[Braden]

MerryPrankster

"I notice that my posture breaks down when I am tired, but when I 'train myself,' to maintain good posture, it's much less of an issue"

Now, spend half an hour every morning and every evening for the next three months just standing there stretching and relaxing your body into good posture, and see if that improvement continues. Ok, probably not your idea of a good time - which is maybe why everyone who sticks with the internal arts also happen to be half-nutty. ;p

[red5angel]

Gotcha. I jst wanted to drop my 2 cents in about that because I aksed that very same question a month ago, got the answer I gave you, have been doing it since then and it does help. Braden is right, not exactly the typical idea of a good time but lets face it sometimes martial training just goes in a direction that isnt always 'fun'

[Merryprankster]

Braden---

No.


But thanks for the suggestion I can't sit still for 5 minutes.

[PaulLin]

....still reading all the above....need more time to read.

[PaulLin]

I wouldn't say that the mind and Qi are only in Internal and applications and hardcore styles are External. Actually, they all will be existed in all styles little or less. Some has these different in ratio as the level moves up.

I would just say if you think that Qi and mind existed for application, then you are the External catagory.

If you think that the applications are existed form further mind and Qi developments, I would think you are the Internal catagory.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Paul
Well, it must be nice to have all the answers about everything. maybe one day I can be as knowledgeable as you.

that's it, paul. eyes on the prize.


stuart b.

[PaulLin]

It feels really weird that some one called out Paul and it is not me. Maybe I should modified my name

[Paul]

that's it, paul. eyes on the prize.

Talk about dwelling on the past I made that post about 6 days ago. Get over it all ready.

Are you MP's knight in shining armour, here to defend his virtue?

[apoweyn]

something like that. i'm also bogged down in work. but as it turns out, your post was just as needlessly hostile yesterday as it was on the day you posted it. unless you've had a change of heart?

rest assured that merryprankster doesn't need me to defend him. i'm just getting fed up with such fascinating and insightful comments as this. if you disagree with his point, how about elucidating a bit rather than leaving a flaming bag of sarcasm on the doorstep and running off?


stuart b.