Article on JKD

[Rafael]

red5angel ,


Have you ever trained in Jun fan jeet kune do?

If you have not what makes you an authority to write about it ?

I am curious cause in your bio it says you have 2 years of Wing chun experince .

Can someone with 2 years of WC experience and no prior junfan Jkd experience even comment on the subject?

I am very curious about that.

What do you know about the hammer principle?

Non-intention?

Non -intention vs non telegraph .

What stance does JKD use ?

what are the 5 ways of attack and defense in JKD?

What are the basic footwork priciples in JKD?

What are the era's in JKD and what makes them different from one another ?

How about footwork ? What type of footwork does a JKD man use ?

What are the main arts that influnence JKD ?

What is the criticle edge ?


2 years is good time in WC . But is that enough to comment about JFJKD?

It's okay if you don't know the answers to the questions .

Just undestand there a lot to JFJKD you do not understand.

Have a great day


RF-

[rogue]

So let's recap. JKD peeps can criticize, malign and dismiss things that they don't understand, were too lazy to work at or didn't learn correctly do to the ever present bad instructor.

Just undestand there a lot to "fill art in here" you do not understand.

CLG, Clarify your statement, "These days I train primarily for self-defense.", please?

Do you train by having someone sucker punch you in the solar plexus, or nose or crack you over the head with something and then respond? Probably not. Or do you start from a face off while wearing protective gear? Probably yes.

I'm with Red on this, the terms "self-defense" and "reality fighting" are over used and are more for marketing school memberships than describing what they do.

I have a lot of respect for many people in the JKD camp, but most of the techniques taught are great for getting into a fight and not self defense.

[Sensei Kunz]

Quote:

"So let's recap. JKD peeps can criticize, malign and dismiss things that they don't understand, were too lazy to work at or didn't learn correctly do to the ever present bad instructor. "

This is a given! It is obvious that it is common knowledge that there are many instructors in all arts that are not qualified to teach any art. Unless you are well trained in an art, then and only then can anyone make this assesment.

Quote:

"I'm with Red on this, the terms "self-defense" and "reality fighting" are over used and are more for marketing school memberships than describing what they do. "

There is a difference between street fighting and the norm of martial arts, no question! I currently hold three black belts in three tradiontal arts and not one was taught in the realities of street fighting. I will give you the fact that I earned the last one back in the late 70's. Hopefully, things have changed today?

Quote:

"I have a lot of respect for many people in the JKD camp, but most of the techniques taught are great for getting into a fight and not self defense."

This statement is absurd. JKD trains primarily for street fighting with no holds barred. It best prepares you for the street confrontation. Yes, if a fight is about to take place, we do not pull any punches, we consider it an all out war!

I personally believe that any martial arts training does better the individual for combat. However, many are not trained in the fear of human nature once it is a reality. There is more to than just training in technique and form. There are many more aspect to consider regarding application.

Sensei Kunz

[apoweyn]

actually, i think rogue brings up a couple of really good points.

first, to rafael, rogue's right. there are plenty of people in the JKD camp that dismiss styles knowing less of them than red5angel knows of JKD. so you could stand to be a little less sanctimonious about the whole thing. second, from lengthy discussions with red5angel, i can tell you that his first allegiance is certainly to wing chun, but that he's not closed minded. please bear that in mind.

next, to sensei kunz, rogue's right to my mind. if JKD practices knifefighting, it very often tends to be what black jack refers to as knife fencing (squared off) rather than assassination (also black jack's term, to describe being unexpectedly stabbed at from behind, etc.) to my mind, the latter is more likely with regard to 'street fighting' than the former. or self defense, if a person prefers that term.

scenario drills, three on two sparring sessions, improvisational weapons simulations. all of these would seem well placed in a course genuinely devoted to street fighting.

personally, i like the idea of JKD more from a philosophical standpoint. i don't find it particularly more realistic than many other arts.



stuart b.

[rogue]

<<"I have a lot of respect for many people in the JKD camp, but most of the techniques taught are great for getting into a fight and not self defense." >>

"JKD trains primarily for street fighting with no holds barred. It best prepares you for the street confrontation. Yes, if a fight is about to take place, we do not pull any punches, we consider it an all out war!"

Thank you for agreeing with me.

[DelicateSound]

Firstly Sensei Kunz, I would like to say thank you for acknowledging my post on Page Three. After taking the time to read your extensive article I feel satisfied with the high level of interchange in the latter stages of this thread

As for:

JKD trains primarily for street fighting with no holds barred. It best prepares you for the street confrontation. Yes, if a fight is about to take place, we do not pull any punches, we consider it an all out war!

Is that really unique to JKD?! I think not. Pick a football hooligan. Any one of them. Do you train 100% power with no pads, allowing every single move? "Football-hooligan Fu" does, so none of this holier than though shit OK?


Rafael: I can answer every single question directed to Red5. Would you like to debate it with me? You make out that because he's had no direct experience that his viewpoint is rendered irrelevant. I think not. Everyones viewpoint is important, be it from a WC perspective or otherwise. Attacking a persons background is bullshit OK.

Pick an element of JKD. GO on, any one. We'll have anice friendly discussion.



Apoweyn:

personally, i like the idea of JKD more from a philosophical standpoint. i don't find it particularly more realistic than many other arts.

Too fucking right.

[Rafael]

<Rafael: I can answer every single question directed to Red5. >

Good for you ! Would you like a pat on the head ? Did I even direct this to you ? By all means answer the questions if it makes you feel better.

But why should you feel you need to answer those questions if there not directed to you ? What are you trying to prove?

Well it won't prove anything to me. I think more important son you may be trying to prove something to yourself ?

<Would you like to debate it with me? >

Debate what ???? They were questions If you study only Wing chun you cannot answer these questions correctly .

<You make out that because he's had no direct experience that his viewpoint is rendered irrelevant.>

Well how is it not ???WC is a core point of JKD . What you get eventually in your JKD may not look like WC at all to the plain eye.

More questions for you to ponder.......

In WC do they use western boxing techniques ? Fencing foot work ? Strong side forward ? I think not . It's a different animal ...sorry ..I train both styles extensivly and know this as a fact. This is not to down grade WC . Wc is a great art . I would only be putting down my own roots. But WC is not JKD. How would it look & sound if a JKD guy went on to tell a Wc guy what WC is all about ? The JKD guy can have a little perspective. Do you see? So in a way yes he can have some base perspctive. But if he is not training JKD ?????????????



<think not. Everyones viewpoint is important, be it from a WC perspective or otherwise. Attacking a persons background is bull**** OK. >

Okay the only bull@@@@ around here is your holier then thou attitude . Please Do not lecture me or talk down to me . I do not stand for that.


Another example:
It's like me doing western boxing and then saying I know Thai boxing and never trained in it and never doing it .


RF-

Yes feel free to answer all those basic questions. Again only you can answer why you have a burning disire too.

[Rafael]

I think Red5angle is an up and coming guy. In conversing with him I see his intention and ambition to progress in his study of WC. I was not putting him down in any way.

The questions were put there so he could see there are diffrences. And if you do not know the differences or understand them you must then learn too.

He is a bright enough guy to have figured that out.


RF-

[DelicateSound]

Debate what?

The article on JKD and the subsequent topics contained within.

Well how is it not

Everyones view has some weight to it, from whatever perspective. Especially regarding the status and purpose of JKD, you would think that your perspective would be far more inclusive.

[CannonFist]

Some have the impression that traditional systems rely alot on forms.

However some traditional systems themselves regard this over reliance on forms as something untraditional. Instead these "traditional" systems rely more on practising certain core movements with its many combinations and permutations which is not unlike shadow boxing. Two person drills and conditioning exercises are also emphasised. The form is merely the abstract blue print of what is passed down from student to teacher in these traditional systems. So in fact these traditional systems regard it more of a "modern mess" instead of "classical mess".

In arnis/kali, I suppose you would regard Tatang Ilustrisimo as a very traditional arnisadores. He scorns at the modern theatrical and showy arnis and tournament sparring. His arnis is pure fighting.

Or using traditional bagua as an example, Tung Hai Chuen taught different things (and forms) to different students based on certain core principles, which is not unlike JKD. The core is of course the single palm change which many permutations can be developed. However in modern times the bagua has been *******ized into set forms, very beautiful forms mind you if you are talking about the routines set by the Chinese government.

[DelicateSound]

It has more to do with teacher and student than with style.

[red5angel]

Rafael - you are correct, there are many aspects to many arts, JFJKD included. I may have jumped the gun a little, if it works for you then so be it. I am not familiar with the fighting principles intimately, we have some guys who used to train before coming to wing chun (how do you like that subtle jab ) and I have done some sparring and such with them and so have some of the basic ideas down although no where near a thorough understanding of the art.
My only contention was that with JKD it seems alot of the things that Bruce Lee railed against is quickly becoming a part of JKD.
Regardless Rafael, I think JKD is a viable fighting art, my main contentions are the 'reality fighting' type tags meant to make an art more valid for marketing. Most schools I have seen, atleast here locally that have that label generally arent really. rogue really said it best.

Rafael, just to make it clear, Wing Chun is as Ap says, my first and only art, but I dont buy into that wingchun is better then JKD crap. Its better for me but may not be better for you!

[Rafael]

I understand Red,

Take care and good training to you.


RF-

[red5angel]

You too Rafael!