Sparring vs different styles

[TzuChan]

Hi,
In my class we don't sparr, which is ok and not ok, it's ok cause we do 'kinda' sparring, only in slow motion, or fast but not hitting eachother.

Now I have a friend who does kickboxing, I was wondering if it was ok if I sparred vs him, and practice with him, I mean it is an MA that is supposed to work vs anyone, including kickboxers so I'm guessing it should be ok no ? Or any disadvangtages ? He can only do low/middle kicks and well, punches, so don't have to worry about high kicks which I don't know how to block yet, kicks should be ok, I leared to do that counter-kick thing, which works great vs middle swing kick they love to do, and vs low kick I block with bottom of my foot. Any tips are welcome during my tiring exams

[gnugear]

Well, of all the guys I sparred with, I had the most difficult time with a Kickboxer. We weren't wearing gear so he couldn't kick as he normally would. I also did a lot of chasing since they don't like to be jammed up.

[TzuChan]

yeah I noticed, they like to use them legs, so if you get really close they kinda freak out at first But they don't seem to use any special punching techniques, so far sparring without touching vs another WT MA in class is a lot harder though. I wanne see some videos of WingTsun, Wing Chun sparring, but can't find any online, just like 1 round of a fight or so, if you know a movie that'd be nice (online plz)

[dbulmer]

Against a kicker keep moving closer to nullify kicking range. Try kicking low and see how he copes but only kick when you are confident in hitting your opponent . Notice how easy and fast it is to do a low kick. Depending on the skill of a high kicker, you should be able to move in at a faster rate than he can kick.

Also accept while doing this you might get hit but don't be put off it's a question of practice and get protective gear - groinguard at the minimum. It's training not a war - so go slow and relaxed as the idea behind it is to practice.

Also try to practice skill - at close encounters it can turn into a grappling match and at long range it can just become a waiting game to see who attacks first.

[TzuChan]

Ok, thanks alot
Btw that sig of yours, fits me too

[dbulmer]

Just a side note - one of the things you'll find when you freespar is that you'll think your WC sucks. It probably will (I am speaking from experience here ) but you are learning from it all the same and you shouldn't let it bother you - that's where the signature comes from!

The main thing I learn from free spar is what the experienced guys say all the time - use your WC principles, get the footwork right and practice. The other thing that I like about freespar is that you learn that being in a 'fight' is not a smart thing to do!
(of course!)

Best wishes to you.

[rogue]

Things to watch out for in close against a good kick-boxer, watch out for hooks, upper cuts, shovel punches, clinches and shoves, add in elbows, headbutts and knees if he's street smart. At least these are the things that I've seen happen in the sparring group I used to attend.

Have fun.

[monkey man]

I've sparred against a jujitsu guy and had a problem when he dropped down low and gave alot of body punches - complimenting this by bobbing side to side and popping back up every now and then to do hooks. To be fair we were both wearing boxing gloves (which is a little disadvantageous to wing chun), but it's definately good to pressure test against different styles to see what works and what doesn't, as well as trying to make the basic WC principles work for you in a much more realistic setting. His main comment was that my head (and body in a face-on stance) was always in the same position (as opposed to constantly bobbing and weaving like his) and he always had a fair idea where it would be at any given time.

Another thing that made it difficult to deal with him dropping so low is that I'm a relatively short guy, so am not used to dealing with an opponent smaller or lower than myself. It's all good though as if you don't experience such diversity, then you can't grow.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by TzuChan
In my class we don't sparr, which is ok and not ok, it's ok cause we do 'kinda' sparring, only in slow motion, or fast but not hitting eachother.

Your instructor has the right idea. Forget about the rest.

[TzuChan]

Thanks man

[popsider]

Originally posted by EnterTheWhip
Your instructor has the right idea. Forget about the rest.

Well maybe for a beginner or a little bit on from that slow motion or no contact is fine. Once you get a little more advanced I would want a bit more that that - some kind of semi-contact and personally I would want to see some heavier contact stuff with protection.

There are a variety of things you can do and I don't see why you would want to exclude any of them. Chi Sao between skilled people will be fast and will resemble what many people will call sparring - although I think the contact should always be controlled. You can do more traditional sparring either light contact or harder contact with protection (gloves etc), or you can get people to pad up and attack you "street style" and you use your wing chun to defend yourself.

I'm not saying every training session but it's fun and it does help to train realistically.

I would agree that there is nothing to be lost and plenty to gain by sparring with other styles, even to their rules, so long as you remember that this is not a fight and their rules probably advantage them. Try to go into it without an ego, don't worry if you feel you are useless, but don't be afraid to use your wing chun either. In other words just because they are using high kicks and trying to fight at a distance don't be afraid to stop kick their shin, jam them up, get in close, sweep them etc etc. If you are totally useless chances are it's because you are thinking about what you are going to do rather than just doing it. Remember also that in very light contact or no contact stuff people often don't commit to an attack like they would in reality - which makes them very hard to deal with. No contact stuff can be the worst - if an attack is not going to reach you why would you bother deflecting it.

If you are concerned about the lack of sparring then ask your instructor about it, chances are they do have something more than you've seen but they prefer to introduce it a little later.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by popsider
I'm not saying every training session but it's fun and it does help to train realistically.

Fun is fun. Training is training.

Reality does not exist in sparring - on any level.

[popsider]

Originally posted by EnterTheWhip
Fun is fun. Training is training.

Reality does not exist in sparring - on any level.

So what are you saying, training can never be fun ?

Your second point is just nonsense, sparring can be realistic on the level that you have someone trying to hit you and not get hit - that is something that happens in a fight.

Of course sparring is not a fight - as you would say - training is training and a fight is a fight - but then chi sao is not a fight either but it is still a worthwhile part of training.

[Lindley57]

Tsu Chan,

Things must be held in their proper context. Your question is about "sparring" with other styles, not "fighting" other styles. The distinction is that with sparring there is some controlled environment and some form of training can be obtained while fighting is all out, use whatever means is necessary.

So, if you are sparring with this kickboxer you can utilize him exactly for what he is good for - kicking. How do you learn the proper range to engage with a kicker? One method is to have a process of training which is beneficial to both of you. You should start out by getting a kick shield and holding it against your body as if it was part of your body. Have the Kickboxer use his best shots at you, keeping your focus on three things - jamming the kicker, staying just outside of the end of the kickers range, and learn to time the previous two (go out of range and then come in and jam). He practices his kicks while you learn distance awareness. You also want to be able to go in and out using the least amount of energy, much like the grace of a ballroom dancer. You can then 'graduate' to using a chest protector and introduce using shi guards (for him) for you to use techniques like dim gerk for stopping his kicks. Some Wing Chun people have used Gan Sao to strike at weak areas such as the knee and inner thigh. You can "spar" freely when you fell comfortable with what you have learned.

This kind of cooperation will help both of you. In fact don't be surprised if the kickboxer does not want to implement Wing Chun principles to make his kicking more efficient! When one starts at the free sparring end of the spectrum you will find that if you hit him, you feel your Kung Fu is good; if you get clocked you feel like quitting. Sparring should be done with some a purpose and goal in mind. Remember that this is not Wing Chun against Kickboxing, but your kung fu against his.

Good luck with your training!

[fa_jing]

I advise you to get this valuable sparring experience. Stay WC, you just need to modify the movements to work with the gloves.
Try practicing the WC that you know with the gloves on and your fists loosely closed, this will help you to have an idea. For instance, to pak sao, you can slap the incoming punch aside with the palm-side of your boxing glove, without opening your fist.

-FJ