Lung Ying and weapon forms from the north.

[NARVAL]

I am currently learning a broadsword form with a distinct northern flavour (sorry, I don’t know the name). The first moves have been modified into the classical Dragon opening, but the rest of the form feels unaltered.

Do you also study this form (or other weapon forms with northern characteristics) as part of your Lung Ying curriculum? Do you know the history behind it? Where does it come from? How was it incorporated into the style ?

Thank you.

[fiercest tiger]

whats the broadsword for that sifu yip wing hong does on the dragon video on espc tv productions? It is a weird looking form, i personally dont like it but its weird!

Is that a northern mixed sword form?

cheers
Garry

[meltdawn]

In our school, we do not learn a sword form. I can only explain that my sigung's focus was on traditional southern weapons. He was extremely well-known and respected in Hong Kong for his weapons.

I love broadsword forms. Most I have seen do all seem to follow similar northern influences. I think if you study China's statesmanship history from a geographical standpoint, this becomes obvious. Maybe Hak Ga's didn't have need of swords. We do have other long pointy things and some short sharp ones!

[NARVAL]

FT,
I have not seen this video. Does the form you have seen include in the middle 3 successive jumping kicks, going approximately as follows :
- stand with right side facing virtual opponent while broadsword is held vertically in right hand push on right leg and jump while left hand blocks downwards
- pivot in the air and kick with right leg, both anticlockwise
- kicking foot lands in left hand extended
- land in the same position as you started
- repeat twice

If it does, it is probably the one I am referring to. A form for the young and fit, as you can imagine. The purpose of this form could well be to develop students athletic capabilities. May be also to help improve waist mechanics…

Apparently this form comes from North China and has been kept close to the original. I was told that there are other weapon forms also coming from the North in the system but have not had a chance to see them yet.


Meltdawn,
Thanks for answering. How's everything?

Hopefully, other dragoners on this board know something about this.

Cheers.

[mantis108]

It was said that GM Lam Yiu Gwai (Lung Ying) had a private match with GM Sun Yuk Fung (5 or 7 provinces Saber King?). No one knows the outcome of the match but they exchanged sons to learn each other stuff. Lung Ying then got the weapons of the north. Saber is the main one. The one that I learned is similar to a northern form call "See Fung Do" ( blade testing sword) but with some Lung Ying hands. So it is for sure an adaptions.

Mantis108

[fiercest tiger]

I'll have to check it again, but i know that it doesnt flow! There is a section where he stands up with his left hand has a crane position i dont know if its plum flower or not but he looks to the left and right and takes another step and looks left and right.

I hope this helps!

FT

[kei lun]

Fiercest Tiger:
I saw that tape of Yip Wing Hon, the broadsword he did was Pek Gwa Dan Do, it comes from Daai Sing Pek Gwa (Monkey Style). Chan Sau Chung teaches that form, there might be some info on his website: I think its chinesekungfuonline.com
Cheers.

Kei Lun

[fiercest tiger]

4 Real?

why monkey sword forms in dragon style?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Yum Cha]

While we're talking Broadswords, does anybody know where "Fey Fung Cheng Do" comes from?

That would be the Flying Phoenix Double Broadsword form.

[buddhapalm]

Hi Mantis108,
I am intrigued about your story of Sun Yuk Fung and Lung Ying exchange. In my system we have a saber set called Bak Moon Dao taught by Sun Yuk Fung. It is also known as Ba Kwa Dao, but different I think than the Tai Shing Pek Kwar (Pek Kwar Dao) version somewhat.

At the end it has a jumping whirlwind kick.

I am interested in knowing more about the Blade Testing Saber. Do you know who teaches this set nowadays ?

I am most interested in the saber and weapons forms of Sun Yuk Fung Saber King of Seven Provinces. He taught my great grandmaster Ma Kin Fung.

I also have other forms which I have been unable to trace. I have no idea if they came from Sun Yuk Fung or from other teachers. As mentioned to you on your forum (Buddhapalm18 regarding Mor Wan Jeung) we have a Big Buddhapalm form. I was told it was a Bak Mei set, but it does not feature the inch power. It is soft and slow with non stop palms and slaps.

May I ask if Lung Ying has a form like this. Someone told me that the flavor of my Big Buddhapalm set was more like Dragon style (whatever that meant exactly). So I would like to ask if Big Buddhapalm set may sound like any Lung Ying sets ?

Lastly, did you know what were the names of the other weapons sets Sun Yuk Fung introduced into the Lung Ying system. Did they have "Dey Sat Kwun" (Earth Demon Pole) aka "Shaolin (72 Movement) Private Pole".

Sorry for so many questions on one post.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[Ao Qin]

Dragon Style weapons are based on the basic farming movements and impliments of the Hakka peasant / farming community. For example, gwan tao dun, tiew da gwun, chow tow, dai pa, and a few subspecialties such as seung do and wong lung cheun sam gwun. These weapons are intended to reinforce and strengthen your hand skills.

Once this style moved into the south and became established, it, like every other style in the area, adopted local custom, incorporating such weapons as the broadsword, gim, spear, double hook swords, (Lion Dance), etc.

Anyone up for a good weapon dialogue?

[mantis108]

Sorry, I somehow missed this thread. Now that it is up agian.

<<<I am intrigued about your story of Sun Yuk Fung and Lung Ying exchange. In my system we have a saber set called Bak Moon Dao taught by Sun Yuk Fung. It is also known as Ba Kwa Dao, but different I think than the Tai Shing Pek Kwar (Pek Kwar Dao) version somewhat. >>>

I was told by my mentor (Lam Woon Kwong lineage) in Lung Ying about the exchange. At first, I didn't know what to make of it. But later I have found more material including Dr Yang's book about the Northern and Southern masters getting together. So it definitely did happen.

<<<At the end it has a jumping whirlwind kick.

I am interested in knowing more about the Blade Testing Saber. Do you know who teaches this set nowadays ? >>>

There are many versions of this form. Here's TJPM version:

http://216.126.109.138/mantis/images/Blade.htm

Appearantly Chin Woo Schools have this form. So you might want to check with them as well.

<<<I am most interested in the saber and weapons forms of Sun Yuk Fung Saber King of Seven Provinces. He taught my great grandmaster Ma Kin Fung.>>>

Yeah GM SYF is definitely an important figure in CMA. I think I have heard of your Great GM Ma being mentioned before but I don't recall the detail, sorry.

<<<I also have other forms which I have been unable to trace. I have no idea if they came from Sun Yuk Fung or from other teachers. As mentioned to you on your forum (Buddhapalm18 regarding Mor Wan Jeung) we have a Big Buddhapalm form. I was told it was a Bak Mei set, but it does not feature the inch power. It is soft and slow with non stop palms and slaps.>>>

Ah, yes I recall that.

<<<May I ask if Lung Ying has a form like this. Someone told me that the flavor of my Big Buddhapalm set was more like Dragon style (whatever that meant exactly). So I would like to ask if Big Buddhapalm set may sound like any Lung Ying sets ? >>>

Well, my friend as far as couple of the lineages that I know of there is no such a form in Lung Ying.

<<<Lastly, did you know what were the names of the other weapons sets Sun Yuk Fung introduced into the Lung Ying system. Did they have "Dey Sat Kwun" (Earth Demon Pole) aka "Shaolin (72 Movement) Private Pole". >>>

I think the names of the weapons forms were changed for some reasons (may be due to some Lung Ying hands mixed in it). I only realize the saber form that I learn is very similar to Blade Testing after I learned that in TJPM. I would have no clue that form's origin had I not learned the Blade Testing from.

<<<Sorry for so many questions on one post. >>>

No problem and I sorry I missed your post before. BTW, Northern Shaolin (a member here on KFO) knows a lot about the history and other stuff about CMA especially comes to the northern styles. You might get a better perspective from him.

Regards

Mantis108

[FIRE HAWK]

In one of my Gin Foon Mark Southern Mantis books there is out of his ten Jook Lum Southern Mantis books three weapons books one of them is a book on the Weeping Willow Knife or Broadsword and the other two books on weapons are the Double Knifes like the big choppers of wing Chun and the Poison Snake Staff ( Um Long Bak Gaw Goon ) .

[triskellin]

hey narval check your pm