Rooting

[sunkuen]

QUIT YER SNIVELING!!!

Yer all the sorriest bunch of "Tuff Guy's" we've ever had to listen to, whine and complain after telling us all how lame our wing chun is. Looks good on ya!!!

[Alpha Dog]

Any new pics?

[red5angel]

"Could this possibly be the same for anybody else!!! Maybe what red5angel has seen at other schools is that very same thing!!! Could this be? "

Sunkuen, you might have been on to something here BUT, I have been to a few different schools and it is the training where you see this stuff, not the demonstrations. If they arent going deep into thier stance during training then they dont have a deep stance. You train like you fight, right?
As for Root and other wingchun guys, well, I find that many have to use flashy flowery hands to compensate for lack of root and body unity. this is a way to do things, Boxers really only root when they are delivering powerful blows, they prefer fast footwork, but its not the wing chun way.

[sunkuen]

Originally posted by red5angel

Sunkuen, you might have been on to something here BUT, I have been to a few different schools and it is the training where you see this stuff, not the demonstrations. If they arent going deep into thier stance during training then they dont have a deep stance. You train like you fight, right?
As for Root and other wingchun guys, well, I find that many have to use flashy flowery hands to compensate for lack of root and body unity. this is a way to do things, Boxers really only root when they are delivering powerful blows, they prefer fast footwork, but its not the wing chun way.

So you say....Here's what the leader of your training group says...

" Eventually, having this root lets you redirect energy without sinking the legs. For most people, Ken can absorb their energy without having to resort to the horse stance. He can do it from a "normal" standing posture. But that comes from decades of working the stance so he can internally make all the connections he needs to with his body and make it look effortless.

As Ken says, wing chun is all about the knees and elbows. Well, my knees are certainly far more stable than they've ever been.

For what it's worth,

Michael"

Interesting huh!!!

[Merryprankster]

INCORRECT STATEMENT ALERT!!!

While footwork is integral to boxing, good contact with the ground is to be maximized for at least two reasons:

1. If you aren't and you get hit, enjoy laying on the ground.
2. You can't throw a decent punch starting with your feet off the ground.

[red5angel]

Sunkuen - I am not sure what your point was here, what Michael says and what I said in no way conflict. Ken trains in a deep stance, just like I said.

MP - Right, basically what I said, except for the taking the hit, and both reasons are the same reasons we do it!

[Merryprankster]

Ok, I see where you are driving at--no problem. I read your statement incorrectly, but now grasp your meaning.

Cheers!

[sunkuen]

"Sunkuen - I am not sure what your point was here, what Michael says and what I said in no way conflict."


How do ya figure!!!

[yuanfen]

When a punch is not a punch etc...
The mechanics and body dynamics of boxing punches and wing chun punches have their differences. Ground connections are important to both and even more so in wing chun. While they
are important enough in boxing-there are some peculiaritites depending on coaching and training in that sport. Sometimes smaller but more agile people can get off leaping powerful left hooks. Floyd Patterson's knockout of bigger and stronger Ingemar Johanson in their second and third fights are good examples of that- they were Patterson specialties. Again, as discussed before-boxing and wing chun are two different worlds.
Patterson paid his price towards the end- pugilista dementia.

[TjD]

that low stance in the first picture, why should the WC horse go so low? with proper body structure and root one would not want to go so low, as this would violate those principles; and i would think one would be muscling so to speak

also, if you NEED to go that low (ie dealing with someone trying to take you down), i'd say that a horse stance would be much more valueable and less strenuous on your joints, especially if you were reciving a good amount of force

i'm not bashing but just speaking what i think about that picture - anyone care to enlighten me of the use of that stance? is it just to strengthen the leg muscles?

in my school we do drop our stance a bit on higher levels, because in doing so we can generate more power in our strikes by using the legs, but i've never seen anything that low

peace
travis

[Merryprankster]

yuan--my edit last night must not have taken--I inserted something about leaping hooks, ala Roy Jones However, you have to admit that the connection to the ground existed--or did they start the jump in midair? While probably not a "root," in the sense that some might take it, they certainly had their feet on the ground when they started.

Boxing and WC are not the same thing. However, your pugilistic dementia statement seems to slightly imply that somehow, boxing is bad for you.

The truth is that this is the peril of combat sports, and not boxing per se. You WILL get injured. It might be permanent. You also might die.

Create a competitive WC circuit with a similar level of competition as wrestling, boxing, or Judo, and you will get similar injury rates, although the most common injuries will, of course, be different. It's got little to do with the style of combat and everything to do with the fact that it is full contact, full speed, and you're trying to hurt the other guy.

Better, perhaps, to say that the practice of full contact combat sports differ from the practice of personal martial arts. There is a true difference in intensity level between training for health and good skill, and reasonable fitness, and fight training.

Lastly, I was trying to tailor my remarks specifically to red5angel--while evasive footwork is important, you simply can't throw a decent punch if your feet weren't on the ground to begin with. Because of this, if you watch boxer's feet, you'll find that most of them keep all movements very low and very fast to minimize the time spent with their feet of the ground (as I'm sure you are aware of). Certain oddly gifted individuals can afford to hop around, but the rest of us mortals need to stick with good principles and basics.

[yellowpikachu]

Some borrow the Yong chuna rooting concept from the Taiji people. Some said, when one stand in the YJKYM doing SLT, one rooted on the Yong Chuan point.


Nope, not rooting at the Yong Chuan point.
The concept of Rooting at the Yong Chuan point while doing the SLT will cause trouble.

The concept of Rooting and grounding are great at the first level of training or the limbs technics level, but when proceed to the second level training == the momentum. this rooting or grounding structure becomes a hinderance of become rigid and heavy.

YJKYM's design is not about Rooting at the Yong Chuan point. If fact it is a reverse....

What do you think?

[Vajramusti]

Yellowpikachu sez:
Nope, not rooting at the Yong Chuan point
Some borrow the Yong chuna rooting concept from the Taiji people. Some said, when one stand in the YJKYM doing SLT, one rooted on the Yong Chuan point.


Nope, not rooting at the Yong Chuan point.


What do you think?
---------------------------------------------------------
I have never thought that the bubbling well point was the focus for rooting- though some folks were adamant about this- borrowing somebody's taichi concepts.

Glad to see your post.

Did you have trouble convincing others about this? Curious.

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Bai He/Hui Yin/Yong Chon

Most internal arts line these up and even our White Crane relative line up Bai He/Yong Chon.

Nothing about borrowing from Taiji. That would mean almost all WCK borrow from Taiji.


Thoughts?


Regards,

[Vajramusti]

Jim R- we have different perspectives.

Different paths to internal- because of stance differences.