Mook Jong Dilemna!!!

[Rolling Elbow]

Folks,

I have received plans to build a mook jong. I'm going with traditional measurements but using a combination of pipes and PVC. Granted it won't be as thick because its hard to get 8' PVC but i'll pad the lad when he's done.

My BIG question, are the two arms that cross the center line supposed to be more or less even? To do this, must the top arms not face slightly down and the lower upper arms face slightly up?I have seen many dummies for sale and allot of the time the arms are crossed BUT one is lower than the other. Can someone clarify the proper TRADITIONAL position of the arms?

Also, any tips you can give me in the construction would be helpful.

thanks!

[Rolling Elbow]

Come on guys...a forum full of wing chunners and nobody knows the answer?! have out with it.

[williamsremo]

The part of the arm that passes through the dummy is offset from the center. This way you can change the hight of the arms by simply rotating the arm in the arm hole. Usually the arms are set in a position where the arms are even. But can be changed depending on the technique being trained.

[Mokujin]

Where's IronFist? I'm surprised he and his partner-in-crime, Kungfu Cowyboy, haven't jumped on this one!

Anyway, my concern would be with the body diameter. If you want the top two arms coming out at the correct angle, then the body they pass through must be at least 8" in diameter (you might be able to get away with 7").

I don't understand? Are you using traditional wooden arms or pipes? If you're using pipes, then you can't make the top arms close to even- one will be taller because they can't intersect through the body. Wooden arms, like WilliamsRemo mentioned, can be rotated, so they're pretty close to even.

I would definitely recommend wooden arms. Round, PVC or metal pipe arms are not going to cut it. My first home-built dummy had/has stationary, round wooden dowel arms- in other works, it sucks.

Hope this helps.

Peace!
Mokujin

[Rolling Elbow]

Now i see..thanks guys. Being able to rotate the arms is key in making them level. Suppose I don't really care about how level the arms are, as long as the bottom of one arm is one the same plane as the other, i think it will be sufficient as i am not using this for PURE wing chun dummy techniques. I'll be using it for modified sets.

Now, Iron Fist and I spoke of this a while back..trying to acquire a body that is 8' thick is hard as hell. They don't stock past 4' in PVC (6' if lucky) Pipe is thinner and therefore allows you to get it through the body and overlap more closely..for that, i think it is a decent design. I figured i could just pad the body out to the 8 inch diameter seeing as i am going to hit in anyway. As sound or "feedback" is not as important to me as it would be to someone who is a real Wing Chun practitioner, i don't need arms that move or can be turned.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Rolling Elbow

My BIG question, are the two arms that cross the center line supposed to be more or less even?

No. The left arm should be higher than the right.

My construction tip, you can use maple baseball bat blanks for the arms. BTW, round arms are OK, but they're really supposed to be tapered into an oval shape like the human arm as shown in old hand-made arms.

Whatever, material you use, the arms should not be able to rotate in their positions. Ensure that they, in some way, lock into the body of the jong.

Regards,

[Hau Tien]

Check out construction sites for large diameter PVC pipe. I managed to get a piece of 10" diameter (my style's dummy is a little wider) for the price of a case of beer (Literally... I traded the construction manager for a ten foot piece of scrap they had sitting there)

If you absolutely must find new stuff, check sewage plumbing places. They all use that sort of pipe. Places like Totem or Home Depot don't stock anything over 4", so forget those places

Anyway... hope that helps.

[IronFist]

Dude!

The top arms probably cannot be the same height, but they can be close. However, both of them must be perfectly horizontal. Do NOT do that "sloping up/sloping down" thing. On the upper arms, the shanks (part that goes through the body) are offset so that while the holes are different heights, the arms are almost the same height. On mine, the left arm is maybe 1/2" higher than the right, and both are horizontal (through the center, that is... the tapering of the arms causes them to not be perfectly horiztonal... but you know what I mean). You can see pics of mine at my site..

Also, read this again: How to tell if a wooden dummy is crap.

This should help.

Oh yeah, please try to get an 8" PVC pipe. Even if it takes you a little longer to get it, it is worth it. You cannot build a dummy with the proper proportions with a smaller pipe.

IronFist

[Rolling Elbow]

Thanks Iron Fist, its a good article. I shall succumb to the will of the Dummy gods and go with 8' PVC. I have been driving by construction sites and having a look to no avail..i will try plumbing stores as well as construction firms, they might be able to help me out.

Here is my question, even the dummy construction manual i have discusses using wooden baseball bats BUT i still don't understand "how". Do you square off the the thick end and then use the natual taper for the rest? Or is some type of joint used to join the through body peice and the protruding arm?

FAscinating, these mook jong are...fascinating.

[Mokujin]

Sometimes I crack myself up.

Anyway, I'm not sure how the baseball bat arms work, but I know Home Depot used to sell these red oak rectangular blocks, 24 inches long (perfect for the arms) and square at each end (2" square).

You should be able to take a good jig saw and cu the basic shape of the arm from these rectangular blocks. Cut the square shanks and stop at the middle. Then start from the other end and add your taper by cutting towards the middle. This will give you a rough arm. You can then use a belt sander to sand the arms round and smooth.

Hope that helps- probably confused you more than anything. It takes a lot of measuring. Easiest way is to visualize the finished arm in the rectangular block and then cut it with the jig as close as possible. Then sand and coat as needed.

Or, if you have some overtime coming, pick up some arms from The Great Lion Company or Asheville Wood Crafters.

BTW... You haven't mentioned the leg yet. Are you going to have one?

Peace!
Mokujin

[Rolling Elbow]

**** good idea, i just saw the blocks you mentioned today..it could very well work..a rougher arm but after sanding could be very useful. Do you know of anyone first hand who has worked with it this way? I mean it is one thing to say but another thing to do right? In the end my friend and i were going to say the hell with it and just buy hardwood dowels and cover them with a PVC sleeve so they cannot slide back into the body. Use some Epoxy at the end and sand it so it is smooth and rounded. This is easier to work with when dealing with a PVC body because it is likely going to be hard to cut square holes in a PVC body and you can't take a chisel to it like you would a wood body..... or can you?

Now as for the LEG. I am open to ideas, what do you think. Laminated 2/4's that are joined by some type of joint like a dove tail joint or something...plumbing pipe with a "joint" joining two peices and then padded up and wrapped in tape. Or even if i am ambitious, i have tons of cut hardwood branches in the back and there are two or three which if planed and sanded might make a cool leg. I'm open to suggestions.

[Mokujin]

Therein lies the rub.

I don't know of anyone first hand who has done this, but I'd say its feasible and based on sound principles. My Mimi was a wood carver and was able to achieve this. If you have doubts, buy one rectangular block for 12 bucks and test it. If it works- then buy two more and do the same.

Spending 40 bucks and creating traditional arms will far surpasses using the wooden-dowel method. My first dummy has wooden dowels / round arms and I am not happy with it. Round dowels will have improper arm placement because they can't criss-cross in the middle.

Here's a variable: How durable are these rectangular blocks? They are solid, heavy and laminated, but put a couple of clear coats on after sanding.

If you have a jig saw, then square holes are possible in the PVC pipe. It takes hard work and a steady hand. Before that, I spent quite a few hours measuring. The arms need to be level / parallel to the ground and since my 8" pipe was uneven at either end, it took a while. Be sure to have the proper strength jig blade.

The leg- now there's a tough one. I'd say go with whatever's easier for you. I tried laminating some hardy-plank, but that failed. I have found a cedar leg with the perfect bend, but I think its a bit too short. Remember if you're using a tree limb, it takes about a year for inch of wood to fully dry.

On a final note [shameless plug ahead], I would pick up IronFist's book. It's a good supplement to the plans that are floating around out there and shows how to cut the PVC pipe properly.

Peace!
Mokujin