Is there a 4th style in open tournaments?

[PaulLin]

Has any one has the feeling of only the boxing+MuiThai+BJJ, 3 styles existed in any opened style tournament, such as UFC? I mean no matter what other styles they claim to be in, they would finally come to the conclusion of puching like a Western Boxer, kicking/kneeing like MuiThai, and submit on the ground like BJJ.

Shouldn't there to be a clear distinction between different styles? Styles in Kung Fu should be recognizible as Kung Fu and so is the others. If martial arts are really qualified to be "art", should it be expressed personally with it's own distinctive styles?

Some ShuaiChiao artist brought up the SanDa site from China <http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/report.html>. If you compare the TCMA and the BX+MT, it is on the BX+MT side. To me they are just putting a CMA hat on a BX+MT body.

Maybe people thinks that only these 3 styles are the real deals in fight, all others are just fictions or fantasies.

Is there a 4th style? What do you think?

[Braden]

Sure, wrestling!

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Braden
Sure, wrestling!

It seems to me that the place of wrestling was replaced by BJJ in the tournament, over 90%.

[Braden]

I think there's been alot of technical cross-overs, and looseness in nomenclature, so it's hard to say. But at least classically, I believe the two styles covered very different sets of skills.

The wrestling in particular involving the means to bring someone to the ground and in an inferior position to you, and the BJJ in particular involving the means to orient positions on the ground and submit someone upon the ground.

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Braden
I think there's been alot of technical cross-overs, and looseness in nomenclature, so it's hard to say. But at least classically, I believe the two styles covered very different sets of skills.

The wrestling in particular involving the means to bring someone to the ground and in an inferior position to you, and the BJJ in particular involving the means to orient positions on the ground and submit someone upon the ground.

I do agree that BJJ may have wrestling parts to help the take down, or Judo/original JJ and other throwing styles. But I think all together, it would be generally recognized as BJJ since it is the final move to finish it off.

[jimmy23]

"the place of wrestling was replaced by BJJ"

you are incorrrect sir!

[Braden]

PaulLin -> Er... yes, I agree completely. Actually, that was my point.

Contrary to the assertion you made that one took the others place.

[PaulLin]

Looks like we can have a wrestling vs BJJ and see how much credit that wrestling can argue over the BJJ for the recognition. Post a poll and see what generally people would recognize.

[Braden]

PaulLin - I suspect BJJ is winning in terms of popular recognition, but I didn't think that's what we were talking about. In terms of people who can recognize characteristic approaches of the different styles, I think they'd mostly agree wrestling is quite highly represented in the tournaments.

I'm hardly an avid tournament-watcher, but from what I have seen, I've seen quite a bit of "ground-and-pound", that is, someone forced to the ground in an inferior position, then hit repeatedly until submission. It's not that uncommon to see this happen "through" the guard - that is, when the person being pounded has his legs around the pounder's waist.

From an obtusely strict BJJ point of view, the pounder is making a big error. From an obtusely strict wrestling point of view, the pounder is doing just fine.

Again, I'm sure the guys with more experience will correct me, but this seems like a perfect example of the different approaches of BJJ and wrestling, and how wrestling is still highly represented.

[PaulLin]

Well, I am not a BJJ practicioner myself, so I can't tell you what techniques and moves are form which orgin--JJ, Judo, CMA, or wrestling. But in BJJ, they still teaching many take downs, many looks like what wrestlers would do too, but I think they recognized the orgin in either Judo or JJ.

In ShuaiChiao, to the outsiders, there are many take downs can be mistakenly related to wrestling too. But only the insiders know what is different. And ShuaiChaio has nothing to do with wrestling techniques.

Any ways, this question should be answered by a BJJ specialist, I am in no authority to give any info on this. If a MA came form the BJJ background, I think they would think differently than a MA with wrestling background. That I will have to leave to the BJJ specialists.

Is there any other styles?

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Braden
"If a MA came form the BJJ background, I think they would think differently than a MA with wrestling background."

I can't tell if you're disagreeing with me or not.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Ps.....that is what you said, but I am trying to get some BJJ specialists to say some thing, don't take it personally