Myth of the military

[Darren Laur]

In my opinion, most of the traditional martial art systems do not deal with this issue very well, if at all. Some of the more “Modern Realists” such as Tony Blauer, Richard Dimitri, and myself do deal with this issue in depth (again, I can only talk about those people that I am familiar with.)

I do believe that most of the Spec Op training that the military conducts is leading edge in the field of “Warrior Spirit development.” Why? Most of those who partake in martial arts or combatives training, are not willing to subject themselves to the mental and physical extremes needed to fully develop this important attribute. Those in the Military Spec Ops Community are, and do.


Three Quotes I Wish To Share:


THE ESSENCE OF WARRIORSHIP

"Warriorship is a personal and individual path. It is a path which deals with all aspects of life. The essence of warriorship is the process of fulfilling one’s potential. The ways towards warriorship are many, and they are all hard. Few ever go far, though all benefit. This is a commitment to a life of discipline and development in mind, body, and soul. The true warrior is an athlete, a scholar, a poet, a magician, a priest, and a skilled lover.
As a part of warriorship, the combat principles you learn can be applied to all areas of life. Discipline, flexibility, strategic thinking, and the ability to stay calm and see the larger perspective. These along with physical fitness, allow the warrior to succeed in any endeavor. This is what makes a true warrior. Skill in battle is of little use if you do not have a life worth fighting for."

— Sweyn Plowright, from True Helm (pp. 2 & 58)



THE "WARRIOR" CONTRASTED AGAINST THE "FALSE WARRIOR"

"Simply put, warriors choose to walk a separate path, different from others. They take the risk of standing alone and speaking up when others are silent. A vital component of ethical behavior is feeling obligated to do what is right. To feel obligated, one must not only care but be willing to pay the hard price that comes in wrestling with one’s own conscience. Warriors are self-actuated. They project consequences into the future and think, plan, and live long range. Warriors take personal control over their lives rather than be passive spectators and the victims of events occurring around them. . . .

Although true warriors are difficult to find, many people want to become warriors and begin walking the path, but they allow their energy to be taken from tem and their light to dim. You can see it in their eyes. They want the rewards, but they are no longer willing to pay the price to fill the lamp with the kind of oil that keeps it from growing dim. They have lowered their self-esteem and feel a constant need to prove themselves to others."

— Larry F. Jetmore, from The Path of the Warrior (p. 65)





THE WARRIOR PATH

Follow this path if you are to be a warrior and share your light with others. But tread carefully! We become what we pretend to be!. . .

It’s not easy to become a warrior. It’s even more difficult to remain a warrior after becoming one. Many answer the call of the drums, but few are able to sustain the strength of character necessary to march to them. There are many labyrinths, traps, and dragons along the path to the way.

Courage and inner fortitude are required to overcome the difficult and sometimes painful obstacles along the path a warrior must travel. Abuse of power and self-diminishing behavior are traps that snare and draw a would-be warrior off the path. We are often seduced by illusions of power bestowed upon us by the titles, promotions, or credentials we receive. These outward symbols quickly lose their luster unless placed on a foundation of self-worth. Because we often close our hearts to the people in our lives, many would-be warriors suffer the penalty of loneliness while surrounded by heaps of gold. Temptation and suffering for the sake of others are tests each person on the path to becoming a warrior must face. The voice and comfort of the herd is loud and strong. Although a warrior is sometimes joined by others, the walk is often the high and lonely path of the nomad. True warriors do not cower at the opinions of others, but feel themselves accountable to a higher tribunal than man.

All who walk the path have the freedom to choose where their steps will take them. There are many different paths but only one ‘way.’ Warriors accept total responsibility for their thoughts, behaviors, deeds, and actions. This is known as decision making."

— Larry F. Jetmore, from The Path of the Warrior (pp. 103, 106-107)



I hope I answered your question



Strength and Honor

Darren Laur
Integrated Street Combatives

[ewallace]

I hope I answered your question

Yes you did...and very well.

Most of those who partake in martial arts or combatives training, are not willing to subject themselves to the mental and physical extremes needed to fully develop this important attribute

.
That is probably true. It is very unfortunate for folks like mysef too. Coming from a navy family, my child/teenhood dream was just to get the chance to go through BUDS. Unfortunately the military does not take folks like me. They tend to frown on metal plates where they shouldn't be and bones not existing where they should be (football injury, I won't go into detail).

[bob10]

Darren that may well be true for front line battle troops, but not neccesarily the case for those involved in other types of work - undercover, law enforcement, close protection and so on.

Yes, you a re right, toe to toe is not the situation to look for which is why Systema, for one, is such an evasion based style.

There seem to be some sports-based systems in vogue in this field at the moment which, to my mind, go against the grain of any "professional" work

Cheers

[Crow1981]

Some units of the SPETNAZ learn native russian martial arts like

Systema www.russianmartialart.com

and

R.O.S.S. www.rmax.tv

etc....

[Crow1981]

General Alexander Retuinskih founded R.O.S.S. and is the author of H2H Field Manual of the Russian Special Forces SPETSNAZ. It's an interesting read. There's also a history section as well as methods of movement, defence and attack. There's an English translation available on www.rmax.tv

[bean curd]

ok i have read this thread and i am not sure what it is all about, can someone give me a one sentance review on it

[Asia]

First, you'll find **** few real soldiers have "tough guy" attitudes. (I'm defining a real soldier here as someone who has actually been shot at in a combat situation). Amazingly, the "tough guy" attitude goes away real quick with the onset of hte realization that the next bullet won't care how tough I think I am.

Good to know I am REAL soldier. But I disagree with the above. A soldier doesn't have to face combat to be REAL. If he does his duty to the best of his ability and trains like he is suppose to then I would still call him a REAL soldier. Not every soldier will be in the trenches, hell I never thought I would have rounds coming my way or some guy telling me to drive EXACTLY where he does or we may hit a mine (then see one of THEIR vechiles on the side of the road with a wheel blown off ) But they are soldier none the less.


Anyways,

As far as H2H goes. Elite soldier who are good at H2H have become that way through their own accord. But military has changed and still going through changes with the combative program, which I am a instrcutor.

As for as beating SAS! Their may be a couple of guys want to talk to about getting dragged across the mat in Camp Bondsteel!

And as always I have adhere strictly to FM22-102!!!!

[TargetAlex]

I don't think that because U.S. Army Rangers train 'this' or Spetsnaz train 'that' we can interpret this as saying 'these systems are complete and are guaranteed to make you a h2h combat badass.'

I also don't think that being in the military automatically means you are a h2h combat badass. And I don't recall anyone who was in the military saying this either, and I have lived on military bases for 15 years. I have never heard one of these guys say they were tougher than an equally trained civilian 'just because' they are military. I think this was a perception largely created by Hollywood. There are some of these guys (Seals, etc) who I am sure are much better trained than MOST of the general public, but that is not simply because they are Seals, but because of the way they are trained COMBINED with their 'life experience' and personal attributes. These men have been selected because they have attributes that lend well to the nature of the work they will be performing.

The other thing to keep in mind is that while we speak here in generalities, we live in detail. Painting with broad strokes is not accurate here, as the same combat system taught to two people could be effective for one, and useless for the other, and we all know that.

[bob10]

"I don't think that because U.S. Army Rangers train 'this' or Spetsnaz train 'that' we can interpret this as saying 'these systems are complete and are guaranteed to make you a h2h combat badass"

No, but it may be a better starting place than some other things.
And yes, in most cases military H2H is probably no great shakes.
However if you are talking about elite units, rapid resposne squads, bodyguard units and the like, it may be a different kettle of fish.

And of course, you can take two guys in one system, if one never trains properly iy will not "work" for him, but given that people wiull put the effort in, a good system should work for anyone to a point.

[TargetAlex]

However if you are talking about elite units, rapid resposne squads, bodyguard units and the like, it may be a different kettle of fish.

Agreed, however the training these guys do is usually above and beyond what the organization they work for is offering-they usually take their h2h training 'into their own hands'.

And of course, you can take two guys in one system, if one never trains properly it will not "work" for him, but given that people will put the effort in, a good system should work for anyone to a point.

Agreed, to a point. However, regardless how hard some train they just do not get it. Almost everyone has one of these guys/gals in their classroom, their heart is there, but the body/mind for some reason cannot put it together. (Mind you, these people will not be kept around for Spec Ops and the like, so maybe this becomes a moot point.)