Is sparring necessary?

[teazer]

IMO, sparring can help train a few things. Closing the gap, reactions against the unexpected etc.
It has it's downsides & often results in unrealistic techniques best on the rules, equipment & general situation. However, if you keep an awareness of it's possible problems, it can be valuable. There are other alternatives to regular sparring that are worth doing which give more of the premise of a fight. Especially when you keep in mind the participants' differing goals.
Personally I only 'spar' against non-WC people. There are too many other useful things to practice within one's own school.

[Spectre]

Originally posted by Enter The Whip
No traditionalist would condone sparring - at any point in training.

Originally posted by kieofwoo
Why not?

Sparring has the potential to promote bad habits. One needs to remember that while sparring comes closer to a real fight than doing forms or chi sao, it still is not a real fight with the same levels of adrenaline. Each person also has an idea of what the other fighter is about - which usually never happens in a real fight.

I think that sparring can be a useful tool in determining what you may need more work on as long as you don't gauge your actual performance in a fight with the results from sparring.

Spending that time on forms however allows you to refine your movements and make them precise. In a real fight, the levels of andrenaline tend to slow your motor skills and precision. The work that you do on the forms will help to make your techniques AS PRECISE AS POSSIBLE.

If you are sparring with shoddy basics then you run the risk of incorporating errors into your technique or delivery. This time would be better spent on the forms and chi sao.

The key is to recognize what is not working in sparring and work on your weaknesses. The hard part is knowing whether your technique actually worked or if you just got lucky. If you just got lucky, then there is no guarantee it will work for you in the future.

Keep in mind that Enter The Whip never said that they were a traditionalist. You asked if sparring helped with WC. It may or may not. It can help OR hurt you. All that was being said is that traditionalists would not support sparring. This means that sparring is not based on the style or art, but the individual and whether they feel they need it or not.

Kevin

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by kieofwoo
Why not?

Because sparring has NOTHING to do with what Wing Chun is for. If you need to spar to test your Wing Chun, your priorities misaligned, and your concept of Wing Chun distorted.

[kieofwoo]

Now don't get me wrong here, I'm asking these question to clear issues in my mind.
I happen to have chosen a school with no sparring period.
I never expected or wished to spar.


Spectre - you probably missed the start of the thread but the question was would sparring be of help in the later stages of training?, I said "2 years down the line".

Obviously with a system like WC, it would be stupid to spar from day one.


Everyone -
What I was curious about was whether people with more experience of the system than myself thought that sparring could be of use once the basics had been developed. Not even necessarily as part of a class but in your own private time.

The main reason being that I have various friends that train in other systems. They have suggested we get together and spar sometime, as a means to helping each other improve. Call it a form of cross training if you like, but the idea is definitely a positive one.

I have already said no way until I get to a stage where I am comftable in mind and body with the WC system, and have a solid grasp of the basics. But what then? Would it hurt? Would it help?

Just thought I'd test the water before I start sticking body parts in



Kie

[kieofwoo]

Originally posted by EnterTheWhip

Because sparring has NOTHING to do with what Wing Chun is for. If you need to spar to test your Wing Chun, your priorities misaligned, and your concept of Wing Chun distorted.

Mr Whip,

Whilst I understand that sparring is unecessary to develop Wing Chun, I am wondering whether there are lessons to be learnt from outside our walls.
Perhaps I am young and yet to be jaded by the bright lights of the 'other systems' promising treats they cannot deliver - but somewhere in my heart is the notion that I can look without being drawn into the pretty but burning fire.
Again maybe my foolishness stems from my experience, maybe I am just greedy, but I believe that one day I will be able to withdraw my hand before it gets too hot.


Yours With Youth's Endeavour,




A Young Grasshopper

[old jong]

True Wing Chun skill comes from chi sau.

[yenhoi]

WC is a training tool for your arms, hands, body, legs, and even energy, etc.

Sparring is necessary.

[teazer]

I'd say if students are progressing well, they should be able to do some sparring with other styles after 3 or 4 months. It depends on their natural ability + how fast your school throws new info at them. Students enjoy the competition + it's nice to get it out of the way before settling down to more realistic defense training. The techniques they use should be severely limted to a few key moves and trained as drills in advance. So long as they are fighting with wc, no problem. If they start looking like kickboxing, it's too late!

[BeiKongHui]

Those who don't spar often have an unrealistic outlook on fighting and are pitifully easy to beat by someone who does spar. Chi Sao and one step drills do not prepare you for fighting by themselves. You have to have some free fighting to simulate (as closely and safely as possible) real life confrontation. Those who claim sparring promotes bad habits clearly do not know how to spar or understand it's use as a training tool. That's like saying Chi Sao promotes bad habits because the positioning leaves you open to takedowns but as we all know you don't chi sao or spar in a real fight but they are great training tools to prepare us for one.

Excuses I hear from so called "Tradionalists" (a name I consider insulting) for not sparring rank right up there with the old "I can't use eye pokes and crotch grabs so I can't fight in NHB" cop out.

However, if you are a beginner then you have some time before you need to start working on sparring. You need to have become comfortable with the system and to have been doing Chi Sao for a while first.

[fa_jing]

Sorry to burst your bubbles guys. Yip Man used to stuff his and his partner's clothes with hay and spar full force, back in Fatshan. Sorry I don't remember the reference, it may be out on the web somewhere. Renee?

P.S. BKH is correct.

[BeiKongHui]

Sparring is not the place to "test" your Wing Chun or fighting skills any more than any other drill is. The only way to "test" fighting skills is to fight. Sparring is a learning environment.

[Chum Kil]

I believe it would be best for some of you people to read Marc MacYoung's website. Here's my take on the subject. Sparring is like fighting or dueling with rules. If you do this on the streets the chances of you and the other guy going to jail, if the cops happen to get their in time are 99.9 % your both going in. Now Self-Defense is something totally different, which is how I train my Wing Chun (reaction/reflex) is to immediatly use effective action to stop the other person and get the hell out of there. This is a life or death situation. The minute you start engaging in a fight/duel with the other person you are considered the bad guy in the eyes of the law. Fighting is illegal, Self-defense is not. Please read Marc's website, it has open my eyes.

[red5angel]

You guys have to be kidding about it not being necessary to spar right? Maybe your definition of sparring is different then some of ours?

[BeiKongHui]

Sparring is like fighting or dueling with rules.

Once again Sparring is not fighting any more than playing Lop Sao is. it's an exersice to build attributes. Why do tradionalists refuse to accept this fact? What are they afraid of?

[12345]

Originally posted by Mithrandir
Hi Everyone,

For the sake of arguments can we all agree that chi sau is not sparring?
Just some thoughts

No we can't. What some of us class as chi sao others call sparring - this has come up on other threads.

For those that are against sparring can you tell me why - what is inherent in your definition of sparring that trains bad habits?

Any answer that involves saying you have to limit techniques or pull strikes will also rule out chi sao as equally damaging - in fact it would rule out anything other than no rules fighting.