Rant: chin na and bjj

[Tigerstyle]

kenso,
I think rogue is implying that Karate spread to Japan through Okinawa, but he didn't necessarily imply that Okinawan methods were not influenced by Chinese boxing. When he says, "...Though you could argue that it's Chinese by extension," I think he means that Japanese Karate was influenced by kung fu by way of Okinawa.


"Did you hear about Nogiera 232 pounds beating Bobb Sapp 370 pounds by arm bar yesterday,just goes to show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength."

If Kung-Fu or Arnis uses an armbar, does that then show how BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength?

No_Know,
Not necessarily. The "victory by armbar" detail in that statement could be more of an abridged way of implying that he was using BJJ (by citing a technique found in BJJ). That way the statement doesn't sound too general ("x beat y. Just goes to show..." How did he win? By KO?). It is also easier than saying, "Did you hear about X defeating Y by working on his back from the guard position until an arm was exposed, and then going for a triangle choke, but taking the armbar during Y's triangle defense. Just goes to show..."

The armbar wasn't performed in a vaccuum devoid of any other factors/techniques, and Nogiera is a BJJ practitioner (I think. I don't know him, and I'm making that assumption based on the tone of the quote.). That would mean that Nogiera most likely had to use the skills he learned in BJJ (positioning, leverage, etc.) to set up and ultimately succeed with the armbar.

He wasn't saying "...only BJJ can overcome far superior size and strength." Nor was he implying that the armbar is exclusively a BJJ technique. It was more to point out that BJJ worked in that instance. Also, I know that you weren't trying to imply that that's what was meant by the statement. I just like to type (it would seem ).

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fa_jing


What?? no Gouda, Swiss, Brie, Blue, Jarlsburg, Sheep's Milk, Havarti, Mozzarella, Parmesan, Romano, Feta??

Avast Ye, Thread Hijackers! (ducks)

I would not eat that in a hat,
I would not eat it holding a bat
I would not eat it with my wife,
I don't want those cheeses in my life.

[fa_jing]

Your loss, bro. Your loss.

[fa_jing]

Velveeta????

[wiz cool c]

in ufc 3 there was an alternate, a kung fu guy named felix lee mitchel. he fought ken shamrock. he did pretty good considering he wasn't a professional fighter. he lasted 4 or 5 minutes. he had a good base. shamrock couldn't get him down until the end of the fight. He landed some good elbows and knees and if you watch the fight closely you'll see at one point shamrock was behind filix attempting a choke and felix was trying to do a chin na technique on shamrock's wrist. it didn't work, but it was a good try. Also when they fell to the ground after 4 minutes they landed with filix in a half guard. if filix knew any ground fighting he would have held this position and probably could have lasted a another minute or so, but he didn't and shamrock just got behind him and put on a choke.

[SevenStar]

Velveeta is the best cheese there is!

[omegapoint]

Originally posted by kenso


I will argue this. It's fairly well documented that Okinawan Karate has its roots in Chinese Boxing, specifically from Fuchow as well as the indigenous ti. If you compare the boxing from that region and traditional karate you will see strong resemblances. For instance the use of the Sanchin form. Japanese Jujutsu on the other hand seems to have little in common with Chinese arts, and appears to be mostly indigenous. There are records of Japanese grappling dating back to antiquity (circa 700AD).

2 Daoists, Zhang Sanfeng and Feng Yiyuan, formulated the original Chin Na concepts. Being acupuncturists/Chinese Physicians they had a keen understanding of the workings of the human body. A disciple of Feng, Chen Yuanbin, arrived in Nagasaki, Japan in 1638, where he served at the castle of the Owari Daimyo. Being an expert in Dian Xue/Qin Na he was asked to teach his art to Fukuno Shichiroemon, Miura Yojiemon and Isogai Jirozaemon, who created the original 3 schools of Jujutsu. There were grapplers prior to this as well as Samurai who learned kenjutsu (which had few empty hand techs). Sumo was around prior to this, but it can be said that the "scientific" approach to pp striking and grappling was not introduced until this time. Today most schools of JJJ have lost their Dian Xue skills and replaced it with Atemi Waza, which may or may not include strategic pp strikes.

All MAs are of Chinese derivation. All Chinese arts are of Indian derivation. The Indian arts were probably of Persian lineage which traveled via Greek fighting concepts which in turn, came from Egyptian fighting techs.

So, all MAs are really African as are all people. Round-and-round it goes....

[OdderMensch]

you have said a great many things on this forum, earning my respect and admiration. And I hate to get picky with the details of such matters. However limited my knowlege may be on grappling, chin na and the like there is one thing I must ask.




















is velvetta even a cheese?

[SevenStar]

actually.... velveeta is a cheese food. a cheese food while called cheese technically isn't, becaus it has oil and water and stuff in it. However, if you cook, especially dishes like mac & cheese, you know that velveeta melts better than any cheese and is creamier than any other cheese food. Velveeta is excellent!

[Chang Style Novice]

melts better: check

tastes like cheese: are you out of your mind?

[SevenStar]

I never said it tasted like cheese. taste wise, I like meunster...dunno why, I just do.

[fa_jing]

Ever since that time my dad brought home a big block of Velveeta from the "Free Cheese and Butter club" I just can't even stand the thought....

[Water Dragon]

Ahhh Velveeta

The Wing Chun of cheese

[SevenStar]

I think I'd consider it more the MMA of cheese. if it were the wing chun, we'd have to debate over it's lineage, and how well it's been aged. sharp cheddar is probably the wing chun of cheeses

[fa_jing]

Well, let's see. Mass-produced? Check. Diluted? At times. A superior mix of pre-existing cheeses? Check. Claims as to who holds the original, secret recipe for Velveeta, debated endlessly over the internet? Could be. Velveeta producers at each other's throats, fighting for market share? Bound to happen. Velveeta taken down and pummeled by a sharp cheddar with little experience? Impossible! True Velveeta has no weaknesses, it is based on chemical reactions.


Overheard at the local Cheese meet:
That's not real Velveeta! That's "Government surplus Cheese product." We have the real Velveeta, it is available to you in private lessons, 100 dollars per ingredient.