unsure about reps, strength gain etc from push-ups and sit-ups

[buksing_king]

Hey there everyone

Well, my friend and I were conversing the other day when we started talking about training and our home training schedules etc

I told him that I am trying to get stronger ( by increasing the suface area of the muscle) by basically cutting out most of my cardio-vascular work and by doing low repititions of heavy weights..........

He thinks that i may aswell just try and do as many sit-ups and push-ups as i can ... because that will make me stronger ...???

He then tried to explain to me that a guy who can do 500 push-ups will be stronger than a guy who can do 50 push-ups..... i argued against him saying that if both were of equal weight then they would have the same Strength but one would have more endurance.......

AM i correct or is my logic all wrong?

Will doing more push-ups make u stronger? i can only do about 50 ....... should i try to do more ?

Oh yeah ... and get this ... he reckons that by doing more sit-ups you can get a six-pack easier....... i told him the only way to get a six-pack is by basically dieting and excercise ...... but yeah

Also ... if i am going for bicep and tricep size(strength???)...... and only have free-weights.......what are the recommended excercises?

Thanks in advance for any replies ...... and i hope this gets cleared up for me

[ElPietro]

Here's what you do. Train heavy, and in lower rep ranges. When you start getting way stronger than your friend who has no clue what he's talking about, give him a good slapping around. Then he will learn.

Diet and exercise are the key. But I'd say 80% of it is diet. You could workout forever and never see your abs if you cannot diet properly.

I hope you are not only focusing on your arms. If you want to be strong then you must train your back, chest and legs, everything else will fall into place. But since you asked for free weight exercises, there are plenty, you can do any form of curl, I prefer preacher or concentration curls because you can't really cheat by swaying your back. Triceps you can do skullcrushers, extensions, as much as I hate them you can do kickbacks. Go to exrx.net...I think that's the website...there will be a good listing of movements. But if you don't train your chest, back and legs you will never be strong.

[buksing_king]

so ... does anyone recommend using those pec-deck things ?

i have access to one of those machines.... its also has a lat-pull down bar and this thing where you sit on the seat , then put your knees behind these things and start with your knees bent and flex them .... i have heard this is bad for your knees though ....

also elpietro(sp?) do you know of adequate sites and/or exercises that will basically enable me to build more muscle on basically all of my body .... eg ... any exercises for calves? ... for quadriceps.....the back in general.... pectorals....lower abs.... ( just kidding ) but yeah ... with the abodominal muscle...i hear everyone talking about " janda" sit-ups....... can someone please explain what these are or give me a website on what it is... and also after how many crunches ... do they become useless( ie... about how many until you are just working muscle endurance)

thanks in advance for any replies

[ElPietro]

Here is what I recommend. First find out how many days a week you can workout. Then base each day around a compound exercise. A compound exercise is one that utilizes multiple musclegroups to perform the lift. Examples of compounds would be bench press, either with a bar or dumbells, squats and deadlifts. Then there are assistance muscles that are smaller that are secondary in these lifts. Muscles such as biceps, triceps, shoulders, trapezius, etc. You can do an additional exercise if you like to isolate these muscles, and also you can isolate the major muscles if you feel the need. The pec deck is an isolation exercise for the chest. Some people will say that you would be better off doing free weight flies with dumbells on a bench, however, in an isolation exercise it doesn't really matter as much, so using a machine is probably easier and more convenient.

I would say, some kind of press, squats, and a couple types of rows are ideal to build a workout around. I am an advocate of including deadlifts in a routine, but to give deadlifts their own day, maybe with a minor musclegroup in there, such as traps or shoulders.

I personally think that abs don't even need to be directly trained. I will do some ab work from time to time depending on my program, but if you are going heavy on something like squats you will be working your abs quite a bit just to stabilize. If you do work abs work them as you would any other muscle. You said you have a cable pulley, so you can do pulldown ab crunches if you can remove the seat...or if there is another pulley without a seat infront of it. Basically, go down on your knees and put a rope attachement on the cable and hold it behind your head. Do a crunch. I don't see any problems with putting your knees in the padded security bar thingy on the lat pulldown...the knee doesn't even move, you are only securing yourself...so I don't see how you could hurt yourself.

Check out that site I listed...or browse in here, or go to a dedicated bodybuilding site. There are many out there where you can get some great info.

[The Willow Sword]

http://www.arjbarker.com/arjimation/ep3.html

[Kempo Guy]

buksing_king,

If you are looking for strength, do 'deadlifts' and 'side presses'. Heavy weights and low reps.

You could still do bodyweight exercises and still get strong, but as you suggest it is muscular endurance as well. However, you could do weighted pull-ups or weighted one-legged pistols to gain good strength as well.

I would make sure to stay away from any isolation exercises, such as the pec-dec's, leg curls etc.

As for strength building exercises with dumbbells (targeting shoulders, arms, back, lats and legs), I'd suggest doing 'clean & jerks', 'clean and press', snatches, swings, windmills, bent presses etc. These will build core strength (functional strength).

Finally, the Janda sit-up is an exercises popularized by Pavel Tsatsouline (a Russian Strength Coach). Do a search for Janda, as I wrote a description of this exercise in an earlier thread. (The last note I made on Janda's were in the thread "Abs...How Often?" on page 2).

KG

[SevenStar]

Do you have access to a barbell and a bench? bench presses would serve you better than a pec deck.

As for your question, you are both right, but you are more right. If you are new to working out, pushups will indeed make you stronger. But, after so many reps it becomes more of an endurance exercise than a strength exercise.

[buksing_king]

Hey thanks for all the input guys

I dont have any access to a bench press or anything like that .... only barbells and a machine with a pec dec, leg curl, lat pull down and this other thing that seems to burn( work?) your arms .... it feels like a bench press but yeah ... would i be able to build a sufficient work out program to gain a bit of stength( size?) with these apparatus'

any replies are greatly appreciated

[12345]

What are the pros and cons of squats and dead lifts. I build my programme around bench press and squats (plus pull/chin ups), because our gym does not have a deadlift area (am I right in thinking you need a thick mat to drop the thing on?).

Also I am a bit worried that deadlifts look easier to get wrong and hurt your back with - am I wrong in that ? Do I need to look for somewhere I can do deadlifts. I know Pavel recommends them but I don't see them being done in many gyms I visit.

[ElPietro]

If you don't have a bench you can still do floor presses. They aren't as good but basically you do a bench press off the floor.

12345 squats and deadlifts target more muscle groups than any other exercise possible. Deadlifts are pretty simple actually...sometimes people over complicate them but basically you are just putting weight on a bar and picking it up. As with any exercise you are susceptible to injury. I only have two injuries right now, one being a hamstring, and the other is my sore back. Both were from variations of deadlifts. I hurt my hamstring doing stiff legged deadlifts and my back is still sore from a max effort deadlift a month ago. Now I lift in a very heavy rep range from time to time and perhaps my form wavered for a second and with the amount of weight I was using it caused me some problems.

There are many great deadlifting tips in the articles section of www.elitefts.com. Read everything on deadlifts in there and you will be pulling like a pro in no time.

If you don't do squats you are probably short-changing yourself as far as leg and hip strength go...deadlifts are probably one of, if not the absolute best exercises for developing overall strength. These are the best compound exercises you can do in my opinion.

[Viper555]

what are some good exercises for your back and chest?

[abobo]

If you have to ask, you should go for the basics.

Back:

Chin-up
Row
Shrug
Deadlift

Chest:

Bench Press
Dip