I hate erle montaguie

[MaFuYee]

erle is a charlatan.

his 'dim mac' is the product of smoking bad grass and thumbing through a book on acupuncture.

his 'old style' tai chi is what you get when you smoke bad grass and throw a few chen style moves in to a yang style form.

his tai chi martial applications are what you get when you (yup, you guessed it) smoke bad grass and dream up martial applications.

...

the moral of the story...

don't smoke bad grass.

[jon]

So the issue then is obviously with Erles dealer, he should be ashamed of himself.
Imagine what may have become if he had sold Erle 'good grass' instead

In all honesty, im no big fan of Erle either, infact im not sure if ive ever really agreed with much the man has said. Infact im fairly sure my personal Yang style practice is about the polar opposite of what he teaches and i certainly dont buy into his many tales... However.
Much as i hate to admit it, these days im happy when ANYONE is willing to practice Tai Chi as a fighting art. I just think of him as another one of the MANY martial arts instructors who basicaly are simply commericaly orientated. Naturaly he will advertise his stuff in a certain way and probarly do quite a lot of exageration along the way. When i buy a used car i dont really expect the guy to be totaly honest about where he bought it and whats its 'really' worth. I dont think of commerical instructors that much differently.
If i wanted to learn my arts from a well known outspoken guy who runs most of his buisness of the internet. Erle would probarly be one of my first ports of call. Unfortunately for him i dont so i guess he will have to get money of one of his many other thousands of students.

Seriously when it comes down to it if you dont like his stuff then dont practice it - works a charm for me.

Quick edit... In all honesty even though i dont really 'agree' with his theorys and writings. I dont really 'dislike' what ive seen of his application or movements. Its not the way i would do it but then im not him. He seems to be able to generate some decent power though and his application work seems reasonably stable. I should proberly shut up now...

[dedalus]

There's only one person smoking the bad grass on this thread...

[jon]

"There's only one person smoking the bad grass on this thread"
* Weeeelll errrr ummmm....

Its not me, i swear it man, i mean like, i would never like... you know like, oh man i swear it.
(scurries off to 7/11 for chocolate milk and coppious quantitys of jelly snakes)

[vingtsunstudent]

well, ma fu yee after viewing your little page i notice that you are the one odviously on drugs, and it looks like they are a lot worse than bed weed.
so what is it again that you have done for the martial arts world that gives you the right to criticize this man.
erle might be a little strange in his views and might say things many might disagree with but carrying on like this only makes you look like the wanker.
vts
ps as for me only the best will do bog's bubblegum, great white shark and super skunk thank you very much(there are a few other strains i like but i'm just to stoned to remember them)

[Walter Joyce]

Just one aside. Erle is teaching a fighting art, but it is NOT taiji.

[vingtsunstudent]

so yet another opinion walter, like the saying goes 'just like assholes, everybodys got one' but what is yours based upon?
are you the be all and end all authority on this area?
or do you just not like him as well because what he says goes against what you've been told or learnt?
what proof do you have to offer that he is wrong and you are right?
or is the fighting art you say he's teaching his bagua and not his tai chi?
or don't you believe his bagua is that good either?
vts

[Walter Joyce]

It is admittedly opinion, as is just about everything you read here.

All of my opinions are based on my experience and thought, how about you? My taiji experience including practice, viewing demonstrations and being taught by actual lineage masters and reading just about anything that catches my eye and common sense and Occam's razor is the specific experience I base my opinion upon in re Erle and taiji.

Do I feel threatened by Erle, or anyone whose opinions vary from mine?
No, how about you?

I make no claims to be the be all end all authority on anything, other than myself. As your cliche in re opinions starts with *******s and ends with "...and they all stink" I can see this discussion is headed to the toilet.

Sorry but I'm not going there with you.

[RAF]

But that really all we have on this board, is opinions and so there is nothing wrong with that.

For the past 3 years we seem to go through the Erle thing about every 6 months or so.

Everybody has said everything that could possibly be said.

The only thing that has stuck with me is that much of his early historical material and books now seem to contradict what he espouses now, especially his writing stating that Chen Wangting was the founder of taiji [and I'm not going to document this publicly but you can send me an PM for references. Besides, history usually just get shrugged off anyway by everyone.]. But I don't know what he says privately or to students in a seminar or how he reconciles it.

This whole mess envitably leads to major flame wars and no one comes out ahead. Everybody vents and calls each other names and then goes back to what they were doing and actually that is okay. I guess everybody needs to vent.

But then again, that's the nice thing about a free market, you got choice and freedom to express your opinion. My motto for Erle or anyone, including my own teachers is, "let the buyer beware."

[kboggess]

Walter,

It is well documented that Yang Shao-hou struck first and struck hard in an explosive manner when practicing. Is that not taiji because he didn't neutralize and uproot his opponents? Erle's position is that his power-generating methods shown to him by Chang were taught by Yang Shao-hou.

Mafuyee,
My wife hates Erle too.

Keith

[dre_doggX]

I am going to this summer to visit one of his seminars, I have my postive opinons, but negative nor positive matter tell I witness first hand, He sent me his video of Yang Lu Chan Form, iam almost done with it, but its the Reflex violence book on his site that kinda won me other. even though I am still no in complete agreement with everything he says, but when you try to pratice his stuff, It DOES make more since.

to each his own,

[gazza99]

I dont think MaFuYee's post even warrants intelligent discussion, objectivity, or even specuation based on anyones part, as this is clearly a troll post.

Walter-You should be Ashamed of youself for contributing to such a mindless post, with such blatent personal attacks.

.....and shame on me for even responding.....

Gary

[Walter Joyce]

Ashamed of myself for expressing my opinion in a forum that is designed for the exchange of such opinions? Say what? I never said Erle couldn't fight, just that what he teaches isn't taiji. Last I checked I'm entitled to express that view.

My view pont was expressely describes as an aside, and was in response to the following comment:

"Much as i hate to admit it, these days im happy when ANYONE is willing to practice Tai Chi as a fighting art."

Nice try, that guilt angle, but I find it doesn't work well on rational adults, especially when engaged in behavior described above.

[vingtsunstudent]

i'm sorry walter, i just wanted to know where you got your basis for saying this. the a-hole statement was just that and nothing more, why are you taking it so personally? i thought you were one
to not feel threatened.
i must say i do like the justification with the point of being taught by ''actual'' lineage holders. and that means what exactly by the way? i have seen many in my style that were taught by ''actual'' lineage holders and them and their knowledge weren't worth a ****. yet i have seen others taught by supposed nobodys yet fully grasped what they had learnt.
if you don't feel threatened by him then why did you even have to go there in the first place?
it's people who offer up their little thoughts like you did that put this place in the toilet my friend, is this not true? or do you feel that for some reason it is fine for you to have your say but everybody else must remain quiet.( or should i not again forget that you are taught by an actual lineage holder and that you read a lot and that you practice and watch demonstrations - wow they all such original concepts, do you mind if i steal them so i may be as learned as you)

''Do I feel threatened by Erle, or anyone whose opinions vary from mine?
No, how about you?''
again, why did you feel the need to say anything then and well seeing as though i don't and never have trained with erle i would think that his opinions vary quite differently to mine yet i feel no need to come out say what you did.
if you stated your opinion was that it is not taiji that would have been fine and i may have only asked why you think that, but instead you straight out said it isn't, so i thought i might just show how one rude statement can lead to another, do you get it yet? the way the original poster was quite rude about a man he has probably never met, the way i could be rude to you and your ideas without never meeting you.

it is odvious you are a very interlectual man and i'm sorry for being such a stupid fool, as is erle i suppose(how did he ever think he could get away with it, did he not realise that walter the super lawyer would be his undoing), so you may now go back to the land where walter is the be all and end all of his domain.
vts

[Walter Joyce]

Can you say passive aggressive? Again, nice try.